Assault Rifle/Class 3 re-implementation discussion

[Doug Jumper]

Hello everyone, I hope you're enjoying 6.0. Player wise it's officially the most successful release even topping 3.0 playtime, big ups to everyone who made it possible.

For those who are new Class 3 = assault/automatic rifles. 

Class 3s have been a hot topic this week after Lewis millers thread popped off a bit. We always said pistol only will be for 2 weeks then we will look at discussing how we want to release class 3s and that time is here. 

6.0 has had a completely different vibe and there is worry from SMT that class 3's could effects this, we want to implement class 3's in a way where it will not effect the vibe whatsoever. We understand we need to start sinking the economy and that a lot of the combat andies are getting a bit bored. This transition has to be done right though.

My question to the community is, what way do you think we should implement class 3s?

Noteable recommendations from Lewis millers thread:

Note - These are beginning recommendations, the end situation will always result in class 3s in rebel for an affordable price based on the economy.

Option 1: (From me)
- Bring back class 3s in rebel at 20-30k (or a a high number) to begin with
- Add class 2s in rebel for a affordable price
- Allow class 3s to be bought from crafters (Note crafting is A LOT easier in 6.0, some people are already level 70+ and have a big stock of C3S. They will be affordable regardless of rebel price)
- Class 3s can only be used in the baron land(Rebel and above) and Majors.

Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

Option 3:
- Go back to normal straight away (Class 3s in rebel for cheap and allowed to use anywhere)

These are just 3 different ideas, doesn't have to be this way I am 100% open to hear what the community thinks.

To achieve what I want from this thread short +1 responses are not wanted, we want well thought out responses. 

Important things to add in your response

• How much you believe class 3s are worth
• How you believe they should be accessed
• Where they should be used

This thread is very important for the future of ANZUS, we won't have an opportunity to re-do this until 7.0 at the latest.

[Doug Jumper]

Anyone who is toxic in this thread/causes drama will be given a lengthy in-game ban so act like adults please, it's ok to have different opinions. 

[Orion Reeves]

option 1 & 2 are good

 

Edited January 15 by Orion Reeves

[Jack Trafficante]

Option 1: (From me)
- Bring back class 3s in rebel at 20-30k (or a a high number) to begin with
- Add class 2s in rebel for a affordable price
- Allow class 3s to be bought from crafters (Note crafting is A LOT easier in 6.0, some people are already level 70+ and have a big stock of C3S. They will be affordable regardless of rebel price)
- Class 3s can only be used in the baron land(Rebel and above) and Majors.

Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

Those are preferabbly the better options in my eyes, though I think that a mix would be best,
- Bring back class 3s in rebel at 20-30k (or a a high number) to begin with
- Add class 2s in rebel for a affordable price
- Allow class 3s to be bought from crafters (Note crafting is A LOT easier in 6.0, some people are already level 70+ and have a big stock of C3S. They will be affordable regardless of rebel price)
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

Mostly because I do think that people should be allowed to determite their own risk / reward setting for the class 3 usage.

[Kin Trafficante]

I honestly believe it’s a good idea to go with option one but I’d even much rather got with option 3. Having them back would be much better but putting restrictions on class 3s will eventually make it so people aren’t interested and it’ll get to a point where only 1 gang will have unlimited class 3s and robbing every other gang that’s trying to make money to get class 3s and once they do, boom it’s gone. I believe 20k:30k is even still TOO expensive. That’s like double the price of an average car. Minimum class 2s should be 3k-8k and class 3s 8k to 15k. I believe there should be little to no class 3s in rebel however and make it so crafters control most of the market. Maybe class 2s and maybe 1-5 different horrible class 3s in rebel. 

My idea:
adding class 2s to rebel around 3k-8k

crafters control most class 3 market

barely none to little class 3s in rebel itself

Do not put restrictions on where people can use a class 3. 

Edited January 15 by Ching Eggwon

[Dustin Avery]

I think Option 2 sounds pretty good. I think this gives people who are really into crafting more involved rather than just crafting for themselves & actually be able to make some money off the constant grind of crafting weapons. I believe 20k-30k is a reasonable price that can be set by the crafters/sellers. I also agree with c3s being used at majors/red zones & c2s to be used in pvp outside of these areas. 

[Jay Hash]

I personally would 100% prefer option 2 but I am just concious how well this will work. I think as long as their is an effective auction house or dark web system works without the need of bitcoin, then no matter if crafters are awake or not, they can be purchased from a crafter controlled marketplace. 

Option 3 may be something to introduce at a much later stage if there are only 4-5 dedicated crafters left on the island later in the year. 

Edited January 15 by Joshua Bond

[Lou Andris]

personally we can go around options 2 and 3, allow SMG's to be bought from rebel and lower ranking officers in PD, these will run for around 10-15k
Allow Crafters to make class 3's and make higher ranking Officers (cpl/sgt+) & Spec-Ops able to run class 3's in code amber and major crimes, with CERT able to run class 3's whilst at DOC void the restrictions mentioned earlier, this will reduce the influx of class 3's into the market from just guns being bought from the store, and from police getting robbed

Allow Class 3's from civs to be used anywhere

Edited January 15 by Lewis Brooks

[Hunter Uzamaki]

Hello Long time arma player, 

 

I believe there could be a best of both worlds scenario for the Role players, Crafters, and Fraggers to meet in a somewhat middle ground. My opinion/suggestion is as follows 

 

The Ideal idea would be to put Class 3's into rebel for a decent price as Doug stated in Option 1.

allow the crafters to  only able to make the high tier weapons as well as WP's to produce more fighting in the upper areas.

this including snipers such as AWMs, 7.62 weapons like the Troy, and many more high power rifles. Thus giving a reason for crafters to control the higher tier market for guns creating it almost like a royalty to be able to own and craft one.

The War Points would make it so you can get mid to high-low tier weapons to peruse more fighting into conflict and capture zones inducing for the fraggers to have more than just gang money to care about.

and for lab raids only allow the low tier C3s to be put in there but make it like an uncommon item to get vs C2s and C1s loot table

make Getting Class 3’s hard to get into lab raids so they aren’t farmed for free guns and kill the market this way. Make it like a rare or low chance of receiving one. 
 

Persoanlly I think Class 3’s need to be a thing that is some what easy but a bit grindy to get.  I would still like to see them be able to be used all around Florida and not restricted to majors only. There are multiple loop holes to that and can get troublesome for long term issues.

[Brian Campbell]

Just throwing out my view on stuff. In my opinion I would like to see 

- Class 3s around 25k 

- Class 2s at more affordable price

- Allow class 3s to be bought from crafters (Note crafting is A LOT easier in 6.0, some people are already level 70+ and have a big stock of C3S. They will be affordable regardless of rebel price)

- Class3s are allowed to use against other gangs, red zones, police and mayor, but not interrupt civilians that are low class civilians (Legal civilians) (Not rob them with class3 or such)

Don't know if this would work at all, but just an opinion from me    

[Dylan Rodgers]

Personally I think a combination and modification of option 2 and 3 is the best for a balance between the people wanting C1s and those wanting c3s.
 

- Class 2s in shops for reasonable prices

- Class 3s limited to only being made by crafters for now, added to shops later down the road starting with lower value ones and growing over time naturally.

- 2/3s can be used anywhere freely

- Expansion on the available C3s and progressive lowering of price in shops once they are added and become more common.

 

 

as for value, I would say C2s ranging from $5K-$15K and C3s ranging from $20K-$35K

[Lewis Fox]

Personally I like option 1

I'm a big fan of class 2s as they're not as lethal as class 3s however they're more fun than class 2s

I think it'll be cool if the weapons cache came back with 1 class 3, it'll make for some awesome combat since 

Let's not ruin Florida by rushing into full combat, let's ease into it, we haven't had class 2s in a while and it'll be a good change up

[Loxxon Husky]

My idea:

Add class 2 all of it to rebel shop.

Add class 2 to PD currently we are heavily limited on it.

I recommend PD the following 

Any Variant of MP5 smgs & PDWs , Senior Trooper+ 

MPX trooper +

Protector - Trooper+ weapon.

Steyr AUGA2 Para 9mm - Senior Trooper+ 

Sting 9mm - Cpl+ 

P90 - Sgt+ 

Allow civs to buy SDAR 

Allow CG to use SDAR

Allow civs to get class 3s pre doing smug boat, transport truck and pirate ship.

Crafting also another good thing.

[Dustin Avery]

2 minutes ago, Dustin Avery said:

I think Option 2 sounds pretty good. I think this gives people who are really into crafting more involved rather than just crafting for themselves & actually be able to make some money off the constant grind of crafting weapons. I believe 20k-30k is a reasonable price that can be set by the crafters/sellers. I also agree with c3s being used at majors/red zones & c2s to be used in pvp outside of these areas. 

To add to this. Maybe there is potential to create a app on the phone where players can advertise what c3 they wish to have & the crafters can accept the job to make the weapons? Just a thought

[Loxxon Husky]

I also forgot to mention that doing military base major gives out class 3s as well

[Ray Savage]

Personally, I am not a Highly Combat driven player. I love combat, dont get me wrong. But my true enjoyment comes out of the interactions and roleplays with other groups. For me these two weeks have been an incredible experience with pistols only so far. I understand that people are saying it draws out the firefights but  I dont see that as a problem at all. The longer the firefights the more chance for interesting roleplay scenarios instead of just pew pew and its over move on. I would love to see class two's become available soon but dont see class 3's as being something that should be used on anything other than red zones / majors. 

My Favorite option out of the ones given would be option 2. Class 2's at rebel would alleviate some of the problems people are having but still give that bit of progression and keeping the streets not absolutely insane all the time. The think the C3 market being handled by the crafters would be great, but I am a bit worried about the price decline with the crafting competition. I could see class 3's becoming scary cheap... Maybe we could introduce a min price to not completely flood the market with C3's right away.  The Class 3 market being only used by crafters at a high price point (15-25k a gun is what ive been thinking) will inturn raise prices of player to player traded goods. making the player to player market a larger part of the game. I think as long as we can control the minimum price of class 3's this would work very well! 

If theres anything that doesnt make sense, or your knowledge tells you different then mine please let us know. This is just my opinion  

no matter what i cant wait to be shoot by you folks

Edited January 15 by Daemon Stone

[Adam Walsh]

Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

I think this is the best option for a fair balance between those wanting class 3's, but also allowing crafters to become liable. 
Maybe after a month or two, then allow for the low end class 3s to be buyable from rebel, which at that point crafters should be high enough level for those good class 3s. keeping them still reliable and useful.

Previous islands, i know several crafters who gave up because the sole reason that people can buy them in rebel. 

[Carlos Walte]

Option 3

 

[Jack Abduraheem]

Option 2

[Filip Arbosa]

As a long time anzus player I got some reservations about option 1 and 2. As we remember on 4.0 the only crafted class 3s was heavily disliked by many people and no matter how you look at it, the change tanked the population heavily due to fact arma is so adapted to have good gunplay and IMO that is what sets it apart from FiveM and other life mods which it showed people also thought. People just did not like how hard it was and how long it took, and clearly did not enjoy the class 2s and class 1s. Paying 20-30k for a class 3 is absolutely bonkers in my opinion. I have just about 100 hours on the sever as a cop w about 10-15 hours as a civ and I have just about 180k which is not low for cops. This means I could buy 7 class 3s with 100 hours of playtime. Of course there are civ mains w more money and less hours but cops should also be able to go on civ and not worry about going broke. I suggest that we do a hybrid version of option 3 where you add basic class 3s that start at maybe 5-6k instead of 3k and make changes as we go. Don’t get me wrong, I love class 3 combat and RP and wouldn’t mind buying class 3 from people but I don’t think it is the play to try something that we already have tried and almost killed the server in the process.

[Tariq Jamal]

please if we do any of these options can we not limit someone on where they can use a gun.

honestly idc what option wins but i do not want to have to carry a class 3 and a class 2/1 at all times just in-case i get into a fight in a area i cant use a certain  gun.

 

 

but option 3 is the best this didnt work in 4.0

Edited January 15 by Tariq Jamal

[Doug Jumper]

11 minutes ago, Isaak said:

For me as the fourth highest crafter in the server, Option 3 is going to be the best bet. Every single time in the past that class 3s have been limited in rebel or even when rebel was removed it did not end up well and people stopped playing or stopped wanting to play. Most of us "combat players" do not enjoy getting on just to grind runs. Which is what turns out happening when rebel gets removed or fucked with a lot from what we are used to. 
 

As stated in the thread, this is just to begin with an the end result will be this. Is this still your response given that?

[Doug Jumper]

5 minutes ago, Filip Arbosa said:

As a long time anzus player I got some reservations about option 1 and 2. As we remember on 4.0 the only crafted class 3s was heavily disliked by many people and no matter how you look at it, the change tanked the population heavily due to fact arma is so adapted to have good gunplay and IMO that is what sets it apart from FiveM and other life mods which it showed people also thought. People just did not like how hard it was and how long it took, and clearly did not enjoy the class 2s and class 1s. Paying 20-30k for a class 3 is absolutely bonkers in my opinion. I have just about 100 hours on the sever as a cop w about 10-15 hours as a civ and I have just about 180k which is not low for cops. This means I could buy 7 class 3s with 100 hours of playtime. Of course there are civ mains w more money and less hours but cops should also be able to go on civ and not worry about going broke. I suggest that we do a hybrid version of option 3 where you add basic class 3s that start at maybe 5-6k instead of 3k and make changes as we go. Don’t get me wrong, I love class 3 combat and RP and wouldn’t mind buying class 3 from people but I don’t think it is the play to try something that we already have tried and almost killed the server in the process.

I think its important to note crafting was extremely hard along with runs on 4.0 so I don't believe that is a good representation of what it could be and it would only be in crafting to begin with then eventually added back to rebel. Just so we can slowly drip it in.

[Vannah Miles]

In general, I think the best way to tackle this is to think about why class 3's are not implemented at the moment. From my understanding the idea behind limiting to pistols is you give fair and balanced gameplay to those who are just joining the  server.  Obviously pistols only has its drawbacks. The major one being the lack of diversity for engagements. Since now people would like  class 3s, I think the way to derive their value is via looking at what price the average player can pay for a kit since that was the original idea. Personally, I think 15k would be a good starting price for the bottom of the barrel class 3. This is not including ammo or attachments, these should cost enough to take a hit on loss as well. ex, 75-100 for base mag cost. and maybe 1-2k for just a red dot. 

When It comes to acquisition, I think it would be best to stick to the same format as cars just to stay consistent. A few std model of  different "tiers" available at gun stores / rebel. But anything that is better than base should be player crafted / available though lab raid / gang objectives ( ie. transport tuck). An example of this would be MXC at rebel, MX should be craft able by average player / lab raid.  MX SW should be lab raid / crafted in businesses.

When It comes to where they should be used, I think they should be available to be used anywhere. w/o restriction. Idk what the laws on them are but I think having a class 3 on you back for example should be illegal ( Class 2 fine on back) without at license that can be lost on arrest. I do think it would be nice for the first day or two of them being implemented to only be allowed in 100% KOS zones (ie. not cartel or majors / Just no mans & Map objectives like transport truck & cartel money)  so people can get a feel for them.

BONUS:   I don't think the server is ready for class 3s yet. I would rather see implementation of class 2s followed by a latter implementation of class 3s. Or Implementation of Sub 556 Class 3s and 7.62 Class 2s and Under then full implementation later. This would also create a more interesting meta I feel. I'm also In favor of doing random stuff to mix up the meta down the line to keep stuff interesting.

 

EDIT: Reading though what other people have posted in my time of writing this. I wanna reiterate/ clarify, I don't think it would be fun having only 5% of the pop have access to Class 3s. So they shouldn't be hyper limited, they can be expensive but if its via crafting then the only people who will consistently have them are those who buy them in bulk ahead of time.
 

Edited January 15 by Vannah Miles

[Andy Zhu]

Allow crafters to run the class 3 market but make it hard/grindy to make. full run of multiple materials.

Do not limit where you can use class 3s, we have rules in place for a reason. Someone earned the money/materials to carry a higher class weapon they should be able to use it anywhere they like. The cost and difficulty to obtain will be enough to keep people in check.