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Doug Jumper

CG MERGE TO LDSO WEEKEND TRIAL INFO/DISCUSSION

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Hello everyone, recently there has a lot of rumors' going around about the possibility of a CG to LDSO merge. It has been in discussion for a few weeks now amongst SLT+ and the development team. But we haven't come to a decision yet.

This decision is a very difficult one because we know it will upset some people and we don't want to throw away what coastguard has as a group. 

Because the decision is hard we've decided to do a trial phase for this weekend, For this weekend only we will be merging CG into the LDSO 1:1 including spec ops.

If you're a police officer that needs to meet his hour requirements you can do so on civilian for this weekend only.

There will be announcement posted in the discords of the respective factions with more information.

Conversion Rank Structure:
Seaman Recruit - Cadet
Seamen Apprentice - Prob. Deputy
Seaman - Deputy
Petty Officer - Senior Deputy
Chief Petty Officer - Cpl
SCPO - Sgt
MCPO/LTJR - Lt
Lt Commander - Captain
Nick Boyd - Major
 

Merge Discussion Information:

If we do a merge a maritime and aviation division will be created, Nick Boyd will be the major and he will have 1 captain. Active spec-ops operators if able will be instated into the respective departments and guardsmen will have the option to transfer to patrol. Please give your thoughts after reading the pros/cons and any questions.

All CG equipment would be given to the maritime/aviation division (vehicle/uniform wise)

Capture points would be absorbed by spec-ops

Maratime/Aviation would have priority at water events but equal on land like academy is to patrol

PROS AND CONS

Positives

  • Guardsmen can patrol freely on land, they will count towards all Police numbers and overall have more to do.
  • Development work can be focused on one faction instead of two.
  • We are limited on good command members, CG has good command members that could fill PD command spots overtime.
  • Police members that haven’t experienced Coastguard content get to experience it.
  • Coast Guard members that haven’t experienced LDSO content get to experience it.
  • More numbers overall for one group instead of splitting them into two
  • Right now there are 32 cop slots and 15 CG slots, 47 LEO is way too many, to make it fair we would have to have at least 150 civilians on which isn’t possible. This isn’t including REA.

Negatives

  • Lots of effort has been put into coastguard from command, developers and management. To throw it all away would feel like a bit of a waste even though people still will enjoy the content.
  • Police command slots are full, even though some guardsmen might be better potential command, it is unfair to move these people out to make way for CG.
  • CG is built on comradery, there is a possibility this is gone if forced to mingle with the simple folk of LDSO.
  • Multiple people will not want to do this and the last thing we want to do is upset people. Some may leave.
  • Nick Boyd may leave.
  • SMT are adamant about not having another specialized department so MSRT/CGIS would get disbanded.
  • Coastguard is unique and brings people to ANZUS.

AGAIN. THIS IS NOT SET IN STONE. THIS IS A TRIAL. PLEASE GIVE YOUR THOUGHTS PRE-TRIAL AND AFTER TRIAL IN ON THIS THREAD.

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This is pog. I can't wait and see how cg and ldso handle majors and and even see how an ldso memeber would handle something outside there division. Theres mostly going to be up and downs between both groups but i feel like once cg and ldso work that out that would make a really good team.

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I can see the benifits to both and the shock to "disbanding" a unique faction deffinatly not having a great way to be softened or "fair" with regards to allowing all to stay at current ranks and commensurate leadership roles. 

What if you had a police commissioner that was an interviewed and appointed manager with fair shot to all who are deemed "qualified" by SMT and then each devision still had a "Chief" and their leadership ranks below.  Would allow those in command positions to still have positions and a fair represention/neutral commisioner that in theory would not be biased and persevere the specialties each side brings if they were merged. 

I believe a system set up in that way would be a more sustainable way to incorporate and provide worth to those already running each faction currently. 

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This is an amazing decision that I think most of us want to see on a permanent basis. No more guess work for jurisdiction and no more complications, we would all be in one faction united. I think this wouldn’t change much among comradery as the CG boys would have their unique division, if anything it will create the opportunity for more friendships to form among law enforcement and work with new people. A really great plus for this is the simplicity of law enforcement has one faction to worry about for the developers, no more of this they get that we don’t get anything business. I quite look forward to playing with the CG guys together and I believe many will find they are fully capable.

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Personally as CG I am against it, a lot of hard work as been put in to CG and it would be disappointing to see it go away. CG is a lot of fun and I personally don’t see a problem with the way it is right now. I think a lot of CG are in the same boat (no pun intended) in this regard. That’s just my 2 cents on the matter.

Edited by Jamaal Murray
Grammatical Edit
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1 minute ago, Jamaal Murray said:

Personally as CG I am against it, a lot of hard work as been put in to CG and it would be disappointing to see it go away. CG is a lot of fun and I personally don’t see a problem with the way it is right now. I think a lot of CG are in the same boat (no pun intended) in this regard. That’s just my 2 cents on the matter.

If they feel this way they need to speak up.

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I think this is an amazing idea. Honestly, fixes any confusion with jurisdiction and everyone will have more fun. I hope that for the CG division in LDSO, you dont have to use 10 codes still, thats what made CG unique, and the main reason most join CG as opposed to LDSO as it stands rn. I think that the CG in the LDSO merge should be able to have a special division, you cant just rip the effort of MSRT and CGIS from the people who have worked for over a year to get where they are in the special divisions.

I honestly think the CG rank to LDSO rank should be changed so petty officer is at least CPL, cause thats how its always been viewed in CG, either SGT or CPL, cause they have a lot more responsibility than sr deps in LDSO and I think you guys are completely neglecting that and discrediting the work of Petty Officers, there is literally people who have been Petty for over 200 days while being HELLA ACTIVE and doing a ton of stuff for the faction. CG promotions from what I noticed in CG about a year ago, were really strict. There were some amazing petty officers that never got promoted, just cause the people who ran CG or the low command, neglected the dedication of those members. 

I think SMT/SLT/Devs need the input more of mid rank and low command CG cause the ranking system is not at all what any of them would agree to, and if they do, theyre lying to themselves. 

I think we all agree, that the merge will make for more dev work at first but overtime it will get easier, but I do not think you should rip MSRT from people, etc. Also, look at all the vehicles in CG that are skinned for the divisions, etc. This all cant just be neglected.

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Just now, Nex Nuestra said:

I think this is an amazing idea. Honestly, fixes any confusion with jurisdiction and everyone will have more fun. I hope that for the CG division in LDSO, you dont have to use 10 codes still, thats what made CG unique, and the main reason most join CG as opposed to LDSO as it stands rn. I think that the CG in the LDSO merge should be able to have a special division, you cant just rip the effort of MSRT and CGIS from the people who have worked for over a year to get where they are in the special divisions.

I honestly think the CG rank to LDSO rank should be changed so petty officer is at least CPL, cause thats how its always been viewed in CG, either SGT or CPL, cause they have a lot more responsibility than sr deps in LDSO and I think you guys are completely neglecting that and discrediting the work of Petty Officers, there is literally people who have been Petty for over 200 days while being HELLA ACTIVE and doing a ton of stuff for the faction. CG promotions from what I noticed in CG about a year ago, were really strict. There were some amazing petty officers that never got promoted, just cause the people who ran CG or the low command, neglected the dedication of those members. 

I think SMT/SLT/Devs need the input more of mid rank and low command CG cause the ranking system is not at all what any of them would agree to, and if they do, theyre lying to themselves. 

I think we all agree, that the merge will make for more dev work at first but overtime it will get easier, but I do not think you should rip MSRT from people, etc. Also, look at all the vehicles in CG that are skinned for the divisions, etc. This all cant just be neglected.

As the thread stated, active MSRT/CGIS will be instated into SWAT/CID.

PD has a lower amount of ranks then CG does so someone will have to miss out. The current listing is just for the trial, if we did a full merge they would have their own department where a lot of people will get a nice rank. Not making them 10 codes would just be silly, they will be like academy so they will still be cops. It would just be super confusing. 

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not in cg anymore, but i think it would be a shame to lose the unique dynamic. Obviously there were jokes about CG being "water PD," but both factions operated very differently besides just being water and land base

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I personally DO NOT want to merge, myself and many others only joined to play CG, because it was a different and unique way to play as an LEO that you don't see around. With that option gone continuing with PD doesn't seem as an appealing playstyle. It is true CG content is lacking and it feels like our content has been getting reduced with every update. Some of the MAA's are unfavorable which causes the lack of content as well but that could be fixed with communication. I feel bad for the lower enlisted ranks of CG getting put through the merge. The ones who have worked hard getting into their perspective departments and putting in the time do move up within them and to have all that hard work virtually thrown away with a merge just doesn't sit right to me. Although its possible that new connections and positions would be available to them the competition for those spots would be much greater, making them feel like their time has been wasted. As for development we already have all the assets for CG and if we're struggling I'm sure more than a few are willing to help fund it if needed. I feel like the merge would cause more work for the developers as well making entirely new skins for everything in the new boat/air department. I'm sure there are many more things I'd like to add just can't think of it right now, regardless I'm against the merge and I believe I would lose the appeal to play if the one thing I joined for is gone. Thanks

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14 minutes ago, Nex Nuestra said:

I think this is an amazing idea. Honestly, fixes any confusion with jurisdiction and everyone will have more fun. I hope that for the CG division in LDSO, you dont have to use 10 codes still, thats what made CG unique, and the main reason most join CG as opposed to LDSO as it stands rn. I think that the CG in the LDSO merge should be able to have a special division, you cant just rip the effort of MSRT and CGIS from the people who have worked for over a year to get where they are in the special divisions.

I honestly think the CG rank to LDSO rank should be changed so petty officer is at least CPL, cause thats how its always been viewed in CG, either SGT or CPL, cause they have a lot more responsibility than sr deps in LDSO and I think you guys are completely neglecting that and discrediting the work of Petty Officers, there is literally people who have been Petty for over 200 days while being HELLA ACTIVE and doing a ton of stuff for the faction. CG promotions from what I noticed in CG about a year ago, were really strict. There were some amazing petty officers that never got promoted, just cause the people who ran CG or the low command, neglected the dedication of those members. 

I think SMT/SLT/Devs need the input more of mid rank and low command CG cause the ranking system is not at all what any of them would agree to, and if they do, theyre lying to themselves. 

I think we all agree, that the merge will make for more dev work at first but overtime it will get easier, but I do not think you should rip MSRT from people, etc. Also, look at all the vehicles in CG that are skinned for the divisions, etc. This all cant just be neglected.

I like your touch on the NCO's of CG, they definitely work extremally hard making the department run like a well oiled machine, CG's definitely more laid back on policy and coms, not sure how the two personalities are going to mix well with the merge

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Pre Trial ~

My honest opinion about this merge is I am mostly against it because in CG we have built a culture built on countless hours playing together to the point where I feel as if merging us into the LDSO would destroy that culture. Furthermore, Nick Boyd is an excellent captain and has been one of the best things to happen to CG losing him through a pre mature merge would make a lot of people want to leave CG. Moreover, I believe that compared to the LDSO, CG has a much better punishment system where if you get punished you always have a chance to have your side of the story heard usually through a CM, it is a brilliant system that a lot of the guardsmen that we have rely on if they get punished unfairly, which happens all the time and if you think it doesn't then you're living under a rock. Finally, I believe that USCG is a good thing to have especially for the people that want to be able to be law enforcement without having to be handing out tickets every two minutes for running a stop sign or pulling someone over and giving them a fine because they are driving at night time without headlights on.

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2 minutes ago, Paulb said:

Pre Trial ~

My honest opinion about this merge is I am mostly against it because in CG we have built a culture built on countless hours playing together to the point where I feel as if merging us into the LDSO would destroy that culture. Furthermore, Nick Boyd is an excellent captain and has been one of the best things to happen to CG losing him through a pre mature merge would make a lot of people want to leave CG. Moreover, I believe that compared to the LDSO, CG has a much better punishment system where if you get punished you always have a chance to have your side of the story heard usually through a CM, it is a brilliant system that a lot of the guardsmen that we have rely on if they get punished unfairly, which happens all the time and if you think it doesn't then you're living under a rock. Finally, I believe that USCG is a good thing to have especially for the people that want to be able to be law enforcement without having to be handing out tickets every two minutes for running a stop sign or pulling someone over and giving them a fine because they are driving at night time without headlights on.

+1

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14 minutes ago, Thomas Ivankov said:

PRE TRIAL
Tbh In my opinion this is going to hurt both factions, and will not turn out the wat we are thinking it will. However I am hopeful and want to see what this is going to be like but I do have my worries on what will happen with spec ops will there be more slots added for both spec ops departments or? Idk very nervous about what will happen to ranks and positions in the pd. 

 

*IF THIS WAS ADRESSED IN THE MEETING CALL ME STUPID AND IGNORE ME I WAS NOT THERE* 

Ur stupid this was addressed in the meeting big heart but yeah this is cap puddles

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20 minutes ago, Doug Jumper said:

As the thread stated, active MSRT/CGIS will be instated into SWAT/CID.

PD has a lower amount of ranks then CG does so someone will have to miss out. The current listing is just for the trial, if we did a full merge they would have their own department where a lot of people will get a nice rank. Not making them 10 codes would just be silly, they will be like academy so they will still be cops. It would just be super confusing. 

Doug the thing about 10 codes are kinda dumb as all of CG have always been told not to use it and thats one of the things there made CG defrend also all of CG being able to go to Cap zones where something defrend and worked nicely

Edited by Andy ONiel
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13 minutes ago, Paulb said:

Pre Trial ~

My honest opinion about this merge is I am mostly against it because in CG we have built a culture built on countless hours playing together to the point where I feel as if merging us into the LDSO would destroy that culture. Furthermore, Nick Boyd is an excellent captain and has been one of the best things to happen to CG losing him through a pre mature merge would make a lot of people want to leave CG. Moreover, I believe that compared to the LDSO, CG has a much better punishment system where if you get punished you always have a chance to have your side of the story heard usually through a CM, it is a brilliant system that a lot of the guardsmen that we have rely on if they get punished unfairly, which happens all the time and if you think it doesn't then you're living under a rock. Finally, I believe that USCG is a good thing to have especially for the people that want to be able to be law enforcement without having to be handing out tickets every two minutes for running a stop sign or pulling someone over and giving them a fine because they are driving at night time without headlights on.

+1

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29 minutes ago, Paulb said:

Pre Trial ~

My honest opinion about this merge is I am mostly against it because in CG we have built a culture built on countless hours playing together to the point where I feel as if merging us into the LDSO would destroy that culture. Furthermore, Nick Boyd is an excellent captain and has been one of the best things to happen to CG losing him through a pre mature merge would make a lot of people want to leave CG. Moreover, I believe that compared to the LDSO, CG has a much better punishment system where if you get punished you always have a chance to have your side of the story heard usually through a CM, it is a brilliant system that a lot of the guardsmen that we have rely on if they get punished unfairly, which happens all the time and if you think it doesn't then you're living under a rock. Finally, I believe that USCG is a good thing to have especially for the people that want to be able to be law enforcement without having to be handing out tickets every two minutes for running a stop sign or pulling someone over and giving them a fine because they are driving at night time without headlights on.

+1

CG is a really unique faction, so this merge will create a lot on conflicts on both sides. 

Both factions have different SOPs which are clear to players by now so they can join either whichever works best for them.

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28 minutes ago, Paulb said:

Pre Trial ~

My honest opinion about this merge is I am mostly against it because in CG we have built a culture built on countless hours playing together to the point where I feel as if merging us into the LDSO would destroy that culture. Furthermore, Nick Boyd is an excellent captain and has been one of the best things to happen to CG losing him through a pre mature merge would make a lot of people want to leave CG. Moreover, I believe that compared to the LDSO, CG has a much better punishment system where if you get punished you always have a chance to have your side of the story heard usually through a CM, it is a brilliant system that a lot of the guardsmen that we have rely on if they get punished unfairly, which happens all the time and if you think it doesn't then you're living under a rock. Finally, I believe that USCG is a good thing to have especially for the people that want to be able to be law enforcement without having to be handing out tickets every two minutes for running a stop sign or pulling someone over and giving them a fine because they are driving at night time without headlights on.

Hello Paul, I hear you worries about the merger.  It's a different culture between CG and LDSO I feel you're mistaken on how it would change.  The CG culture would not simply disappear like when many cultures in today's age merge they don't disappear and many adapt cultures bring in new ideas, traits, and way's of doing things.  It will absolutely change though that's a fact but that I dare to say isn't a bad thing because change is good.  

Nick I completely agree is an great captain and his passion for the Coast Guard is unrivaled, I am excited to work together with Nick and the rest of the USCG command to accomplish big things.

As for the punishment system the LDSO has Anti Corruption Unit for the main source of punishments.  I'll say I live under a rock because Removal From Position Policy is always followed in the LDSO (If it's not we just appeal the punishment) and people always get a chance to defend themselves before they are punished.  We have an appeal section just like USCG does for any punishments that go through ACU or come from a command member in the faction.  One of our Majors would then investigate the punishment and make sure protocol was followed, the punishment was indeed a violation, and that the punishment is fitting for the violation.

Also cops don't have to give out tickets every 2 minutes for things like running a stop sign, officer discretion allows everyone in my Sheriff's Office to do what they think is proper in that situation if they want to give the tickets out.  With our Maritime and Aviation Division we're looking to add as a part of the merge you wouldn't be doing what you just spoke about and would basically be doing the same things you do now as CG.

 

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1 hour ago, Doug Jumper said:

As the thread stated, active MSRT/CGIS will be instated into SWAT/CID.

PD has a lower amount of ranks then CG does so someone will have to miss out. The current listing is just for the trial, if we did a full merge they would have their own department where a lot of people will get a nice rank. Not making them 10 codes would just be silly, they will be like academy so they will still be cops. It would just be super confusing. 

good thing for msrt/cgis then. I still want to say again, PO should be made CPL, regardless of enough ranks in CG or not. POs getting SR Dep is a huge insult. I am willing to bet if this is not done, a good chunk of POs will discharge sadly.

New rank fix:
Seaman recruit - Probationary to start. I think this can be substitued by asking cg command inputs on low tig members, etc. and make the people they arent confident in, cadets. But do not fuck all of CGs ranks cause of 1 extra rank, just make half the rank go through cadet and half not.
Seaman Apprentice - Deputy
Seaman - Senior Deputy
Chief Petty Officer/Petty Officer - Cpl you already merged 2 of the command ranks, I think merging these two, both CPOs and POs will be fine with, cause CG actually respect eachother.
SCPO - Sgt

Edited by Nex Nuestra
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7 minutes ago, Peter Clark said:

Hello Paul, I hear you worries about the merger.  It's a different culture between CG and LDSO I feel you're mistaken on how it would change.  The CG culture would not simply disappear like when many cultures in today's age merge they don't disappear and many adapt cultures bring in new ideas, traits, and way's of doing things.  It will absolutely change though that's a fact but that I dare to say isn't a bad thing because change is good.  

Nick I completely agree is an great captain and his passion for the Coast Guard is unrivaled, I am excited to work together with Nick and the rest of the USCG command to accomplish big things.

As for the punishment system the LDSO has Anti Corruption Unit for the main source of punishments.  I'll say I live under a rock because Removal From Position Policy is always followed in the LDSO (If it's not we just appeal the punishment) and people always get a chance to defend themselves before they are punished.  We have an appeal section just like USCG does for any punishments that go through ACU or come from a command member in the faction.  One of our Majors would then investigate the punishment and make sure protocol was followed, the punishment was indeed a violation, and that the punishment is fitting for the violation.

Also cops don't have to give out tickets every 2 minutes for things like running a stop sign, officer discretion allows everyone in my Sheriff's Office to do what they think is proper in that situation if they want to give the tickets out.  With our Maritime and Aviation Division we're looking to add as a part of the merge you wouldn't be doing what you just spoke about and would basically be doing the same things you do now as CG.

 

One hundred percent agreed I hear what some of you guys are saying but legitimately it will basically be CG but with way more jurisdiction and benefits. 

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41 minutes ago, Paulb said:

Pre Trial ~

My honest opinion about this merge is I am mostly against it because in CG we have built a culture built on countless hours playing together to the point where I feel as if merging us into the LDSO would destroy that culture. Furthermore, Nick Boyd is an excellent captain and has been one of the best things to happen to CG losing him through a pre mature merge would make a lot of people want to leave CG. Moreover, I believe that compared to the LDSO, CG has a much better punishment system where if you get punished you always have a chance to have your side of the story heard usually through a CM, it is a brilliant system that a lot of the guardsmen that we have rely on if they get punished unfairly, which happens all the time and if you think it doesn't then you're living under a rock. Finally, I believe that USCG is a good thing to have especially for the people that want to be able to be law enforcement without having to be handing out tickets every two minutes for running a stop sign or pulling someone over and giving them a fine because they are driving at night time without headlights on.

+1 man 100% agree how this merge is structured at this point is terrible Cg and LDSO have a completely different objective and different culture and with the comment on punishments I 100% agree our punishment system is an absolute joke compared to you guys and any cop can attest our thing is a joke the fact you can appeal points and by the time it gets looked at the points are gone. This merge is genuinely the worst idea I have seen in a long time. would be a better idea just to let CG do what PD does anyway going to our majors and letting them have EQUAL SAY this merge genuinely has to be such an unfair thing I have seen in a long time for both sides. I enjoy having CG and PD separate our goals are 100% different this merge needs to either go away or needs to go back to the drawing board with PD cmd and PD members everyone not just Lts and shit but EVERYONE and the same with CG cmd and members giving ideas. This has so many issues and problems that I am seeing this needs to be thought about more and have more community say than just a few people. I would honestly rather both factions just share jurisdiction obv not for special things like for cgis and what msrt can do but for what your avg guardsman can do and what avg patrol can do just share jurisdiction. Just overall this merge I am seeing so many issues in it and it feels like an unbaked idea vs a well thought out idea I am more than willing if any PD cmd or CG cmd wants to know what these issues are I can either list them to you in DMS or put them here. I do genuinely appreciate everything Both SMT and PD and CG cmd are trying to do but this isn't a good idea. This merge will fuck over pd members so insanely hard and I don't think anyone actually sees it

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