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Assault Rifle/Class 3 re-implementation discussion


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9 hours ago, Ryan Hancock said:

Welp. Okay. Brutally honest time. This has been done before and it flopped badly of which resulted in Anzus player base dropping considerably in 4.0. This feels like a re-run of previous mistakes. 

25k for a class 3 is ridiculous you’ll be doing a Knox and a payout will only just cover the class 3 you used if your lucky. Nevermind other majors won’t cover the cost of a class 3.

Conflict will completely die off if this becomes a thing so all the hard work you’ve put into conflict will be thrown out the window so if this becomes a thing you might as well remove conflict with it. 

Not to mention the fact that people grew to hate crafters only for class 3s cause crafters could never keep up with the demand of the players wanting constant class 3s. It just doesn’t work. If crafters are offline and player has no class 3 they don’t want to play because they can’t get a class 3 to use or have to pay a ridiculous amount for a class 3 which won’t happen and will drive players away. Not all people want to have to constantly contact crafters for class 3s. 

Anzus already has so many massive money sinks, don’t make another one.

Majority of people in 4.0 grew to hate SMGs and Pistols only in shops so don’t repeat that again.

I’m all for low tier class 3s being in shops for a reasonable price and higher tier being crafting but anything less than that is a big no from me.

Overall I feel Option 3 is the best one for Anzus as a whole and the longevity of Anzus alongside keeping the player base happy.

I completely agree with Ryan. This is practically what I was going to say when I was getting ready to write my response to it.

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Howdy,

I’ll put my 10 cents in on the matter. As someone who plays both Cop and Civ.

I’m all for the return of class 3s and option 3 - cheap access to class 3s.

Firstly, I don’t really think the increase in price of guns is actually a good thing for the server or for server pop.


- I guarantee people (cops and civs) are just going to get Zerg robbed by other civs for even carrying class 3s since at 15-25k a pop they are worth even more than someone’s Fort Knox or major crime cut.

- People would be even more upset when losing a class 3 fight if they feel that it didn’t go fairly if they are losing 25k or even 10k when they die during a gunfight. This will fuel toxicity and just poor engagement with players after a situation is concluded. One of the chill things about class 1s is that it’s low risk low reward meaning that people are actually chill to talk to regardless of whether you win or lose a situation. This is something I want to see continue.

- Expensive class 3s will also encourage roach gameplay because civs will be incredibly worried about losing a kit to a situation, and everyone hates that and OP holds. 

- A lack of class 3s will cause a continuation of long drawn out and stale combat that a lot of people are sick of at the moment - not everyone but based off discussion earlier this week.

- I’m getting dejavu of what I’ve heard from 4.0 in that we’d be repeating previous mistakes which ultimately decimated server pop. As gang zones will become worthless, cartel won’t be played nor will cap zones as they risk someone losing a great deal of cash over the chance that someone is just roaching inside a red zone. People just won’t be bothered to take the risk.

- people will grow to despise having only access to smgs and pistols in their shops and won’t see the point of even playing. 


Aside from gameplay, another issue I have with entirely relying on crafters is the wait time. I have no issue whatsoever buying from crafters, in fact, I often bought crafted guns but the wait on such an order would either take a week or two or just never come to Fruiting - as crafting enough guns to give an individual player a stable resource of equipment takes time and won’t be available for everyone on the server.

I like crafting when you have to build a relation with a crafter or weapons dealer, giving you access to higher tier weapons - but this is where I think the market control over class 3s should not go beyond buying SOST guns or those 7.62+ rifles people are very keen to get their hands on.

everyone should have a fair and equal access to regular 5.56 class 3s, 2s and 1s and it shouldn’t come at an expensive premium whether you’re a cop or a civ. As an AU player and much like our other AU brethren, we do not have the Timezone for us to access a lot of NA crafters as well or to be on at the same time - it’ll ultimately depend on who you know in order for you just to be able to buy a base kit and I doubt players are going to want to deal with that in my Timezone.

Being AU one of the worst things ever is getting on to play on any NA/EU server and seeing 20 people on the server at 5pm in the evening. One of the great things is our server pop, and I hope that we can install class 3s fairly and at an affordable price so that people can continue to play and have fun on cop and on civ.

Again, I’m all for option 3 - cheap class 3s - and I don’t want to see server pop die. We have something great here - a great map (I recon the best one we’ve ever had) and great mechanics to back it up. 

Edited by John Taylor
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After reading a lot of comments I think I have decided a way that class 3 should be implemented.

 

Option 2:

- Only add back class 2s to rebel 

Class 2 always in rebel , Class 3 listed on auction house by players so purchases can be made when crafters are offline

- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market

24/7 auction house at rebel and gang hideouts

- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones 

Allow class 3 use everywhere

 

Full response : 

I really like the idea of the  market being controlled by a “black Market” however there needs to be a way for the auction house to be accessible at all times. 

 

People could then list weapons that are crafted for sale and the price can be depicted based on the grinders and Crafters

And that way people who are then “non PVP grinders that like to do runs” have a solid purpose on the island.

 

However the auction house should be at all gang hideouts as well as rebel base. 

Another big thing to make this work is to allow class 3’s to be used anywhere, not just in certain spots . so gangs have a reason to recruit people who do runs and don't want to just PVP.

 

With 6.0 CC has decided to be a very PVP centralized gang so I would like to see this implemented in a way where we can have a reason to recruit crafters and grinders to feel included without having to do PVP

 

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I am a CTRG brain who was there consistently on 4.0

to give my 2 cents on some points made in this thread.

I would be very apprehensive restricting class 3s to certain sections of the map. From a former cop this is just a tease of actually getting into a fight. Baron land would seem like another conflict that cops would not be able to intervene much due to the lack of things to do. 

Crafters would need to dedicate 24/7 at steel mine and related runs to be able to keep up with the constant demand of class 3s. As well as not interacting with other individuals doing other activities. Considering how many people are doing these runs that is a significant portion of the population.

Class 2s from a cop perspective as someone who carried a rebreather wetsuit and a marksmen rifle where does the class 2 and mags fit when there is a possibility of a class 3 being available. Then this leads to issues of class 2s versus class 3s and that leads to drama and whining in death chat.

Raising the Price of class 3s may seems like a way to accelerate the money sink of class 3s. However I think the money sink is a long term solution not a quick one. Class 3s will promote more majors and more fights over things like cartel base and zones. This will be taking money out of the economy over time. 

TLDR: option 3 

Edited by Corgi Noble
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12 hours ago, Raphael Mephistopheles said:

With this idea in place, there is the possibility to see; All WL Civilian Faction guns, every MP5 variant, Para AUG, ADR97, PDW2000, Protector, Vermin, AWM, Saiga-12, Winchester, Desert Eagle, and a few others.

You want, AWM's? But not class 3's? I just want to clarify here. 

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Option 3 is good.

Option 1 is bad bc, paying anywhere near 25-30k for a class 3 is just stupid, nobody is gonna risk that kinda money on a major for which the cut will probably be like 15k each for a 4 man major unless they are robbing national, nasa or fortnox where they might just break even if they don't bring too many people, if you think anyone is gonna bring that to the cap zones you are dreaming, unless you are out hear doing runs 24/7 you don't have that kinda money to lose after going to a cap zone and not getting revived. and lets be real nobody wants to have to order a shipment of guns from a crafter where they price it at 2k less per gun than at the rebel market.

Option 2 ridiculous only having class 2s barely changes what we have now sure you get full auto but you still have to drop a whole mag into someone before they die or they just 2 tap you with a kimber. and then prices for class 3s will be so high that you'll have to do a solo major just to afford to buy a few of them. 

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1 hour ago, Paully Smiths said:

Option 3 is good.

Option 1 is bad bc, paying anywhere near 25-30k for a class 3 is just stupid, nobody is gonna risk that kinda money on a major for which the cut will probably be like 15k each for a 4 man major unless they are robbing national, nasa or fortnox where they might just break even if they don't bring too many people, if you think anyone is gonna bring that to the cap zones you are dreaming, unless you are out hear doing runs 24/7 you don't have that kinda money to lose after going to a cap zone and not getting revived. and lets be real nobody wants to have to order a shipment of guns from a crafter where they price it at 2k less per gun than at the rebel market.

Option 2 ridiculous only having class 2s barely changes what we have now sure you get full auto but you still have to drop a whole mag into someone before they die or they just 2 tap you with a kimber. and then prices for class 3s will be so high that you'll have to do a solo major just to afford to buy a few of them. 

smart man right here

 

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On 1/15/2023 at 11:12 AM, Jack Trafficante said:

Option 1: (From me)
- Bring back class 3s in rebel at 20-30k (or a a high number) to begin with
- Add class 2s in rebel for a affordable price
- Allow class 3s to be bought from crafters (Note crafting is A LOT easier in 6.0, some people are already level 70+ and have a big stock of C3S. They will be affordable regardless of rebel price)
- Class 3s can only be used in the baron land(Rebel and above) and Majors.

Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

Those are preferabbly the better options in my eyes, though I think that a mix would be best,
- Bring back class 3s in rebel at 20-30k (or a a high number) to begin with
- Add class 2s in rebel for a affordable price
- Allow class 3s to be bought from crafters (Note crafting is A LOT easier in 6.0, some people are already level 70+ and have a big stock of C3S. They will be affordable regardless of rebel price)
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

Mostly because I do think that people should be allowed to determite their own risk / reward setting for the class 3 usage.

I 100% agree here this will help improve the rp and actually make cop and crim rp good, basically it would be like fivem if correctly done and it would stop the constant majors which I as a cop from 3.0 to 5.0 hated when they popped one after another 

Edited by Aldo Trapani
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I feel like a slow re-intro to class 3's would be nice with at first just class 2's being re-added to rebel since I don't feel they really get used much as people just jump straight to C3's and than after a little slowly start bringing some of the worse C3's in to rebel building up to better weapons.. but allow crafters to be able to sell anything they craft maybe adding something making it easier to sell and buy player crafted weapons even when the dealer is offline like an auction house that doesn't use bitcoin or something of the sort 

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In my opinion, Option 1 is the best option.

 

Make class 3's available but very expensive. (10-15k) (accessible at rebel and crafters)

Make class 3's only available to use in redzone areas.

Make class 2's available to use in any other situation outside of redzones.

Edited by Uriah Goldbergstein
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10 hours ago, John Taylor said:

- I’m getting dejavu of what I’ve heard from 4.0 in that we’d be repeating previous mistakes which ultimately decimated server pop. As gang zones will become worthless, cartel won’t be played nor will cap zones as they risk someone losing a great deal of cash over the chance that someone is just roaching inside a red zone. People just won’t be bothered to take the risk.

- people will grow to despise having only access to smgs and pistols in their shops and won’t see the point of even playing. 


Aside from gameplay, another issue I have with entirely relying on crafters is the wait time. I have no issue whatsoever buying from crafters, in fact, I often bought crafted guns but the wait on such an order would either take a week or two or just never come to Fruiting - as crafting enough guns to give an individual player a stable resource of equipment takes time and won’t be available for everyone on the server.

I like crafting when you have to build a relation with a crafter or weapons dealer, giving you access to higher tier weapons - but this is where I think the market control over class 3s should not go beyond buying SOST guns or those 7.62+ rifles people are very keen to get their hands on.

everyone should have a fair and equal access to regular 5.56 class 3s, 2s and 1s and it shouldn’t come at an expensive premium whether you’re a cop or a civ. As an AU player and much like our other AU brethren, we do not have the Timezone for us to access a lot of NA crafters as well or to be on at the same time - it’ll ultimately depend on who you know in order for you just to be able to buy a base kit and I doubt players are going to want to deal with that in my Timezone.

Being AU one of the worst things ever is getting on to play on any NA/EU server and seeing 20 people on the server at 5pm in the evening. One of the great things is our server pop, and I hope that we can install class 3s fairly and at an affordable price so that people can continue to play and have fun on cop and on civ.

Again, I’m all for option 3 - cheap class 3s - and I don’t want to see server pop die. We have something great here - a great map (I recon the best one we’ve ever had) and great mechanics to back it up. 

Here's where I want to point out that crafting is very different now, its a lot easier to grind (progression wise) Anyone can craft and get to the higher tiers now with less grind. Whilst I agree expensive class 3s could cause issues, this could be a way to keep some balance, there are major's to get class 3s, crafting, airdrop, transport, and maybe some low tier class 3s in the shop. This is just to get us started things can always start adding things into the shop on further updates. 

Edited by Sigurd Steele
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I have put my two cents in already, but I’m seeing a lot of people stating that crafting is a lot easier than what it used to be, Granit I never touched crafting nor played 4.0 but I’ve heard stories about the grind. I feel people are getting to blind sided about how “crafting” will be 10x easier to make class 3’s. Maybe on a small scale yes, but when you have multiple gangs with 10,12 and even 15people each wanting a class 3 those numbers add up. The amount of runs a group would have to do for each material would be abused, and take up all there free time. Let’s not forget about the time zones and how that can easily be an issue. We would sole be relying on crafters to be online and ready to give out those class 3’s when gangs want to do majors or fight etc. 

 

I can already see that is going to be an issue long term, as I can guarantee those grinders are going to get very tired doing that all day every day and when they do want to take a break people will complain they aren’t supplying. 
 

on the next topic of how there are, “ALOT” of crafters. I do not think there will be multiple people going to be able to craft these high demands if we allow crafters to only control the market. There may be 1 or 2 solo hardcore grinders, but more or less it will be controlled by one or two big groups guaranteed. There are a lot of problems that can occur with this option and I think those need to be addressed and talked about as well. I’m all for crafters playing a role in supplying Class 3’s, but allow them to control the high caliber class 3’s like AWMS, 7.62 high tier scopes etc. 

i cannot see a reason for bottom tier Class 3’s to not be in rebel for a reasonable prices and allow the crafters to uphold the higher tier Class 3’s to allow them to feel valuable and important. 

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57 minutes ago, Sigurd Steele said:

Here's where I want to point out that crafting is very different now, its a lot easier to grind (progression wise) Anyone can craft and get to the higher tiers now with less grind. Whilst I agree expensive class 3s could cause issues, this could be a way to keep some balance, there are major's to get class 3s, crafting, airdrop, transport, and maybe some low tier class 3s in the shop. This is just to get us started things can always start adding things into the shop on further updates. 

And that was during a time of covid when people had free time. Now, the wide spread covid pandemic is gone for most countries with restrictions being lifted. People have less free time and some of the top crafters have personally said to me they won’t be able to handle the demand.

 

Crafting might be easier, but it’s offset by time. And this option alienates those members in the community that don’t have much of it this causing the player base to drop like it did back then.
 

I’ll sum up the feeling people have had and will have if this avenue is implemented: it means if you don’t  spend several hours on the server a day you might as well not play at all because you won’t make reasonable progress. Having to spend 6-7 hours grinding for the 1-3 hours of enjoyment is not good game design and it’s why multiple servers and multiple games die out.

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1 hour ago, Scotty Grahner said:

And that was during a time of covid when people had free time. Now, the wide spread covid pandemic is gone for most countries with restrictions being lifted. People have less free time and some of the top crafters have personally said to me they won’t be able to handle the demand.

 

Crafting might be easier, but it’s offset by time. And this option alienates those members in the community that don’t have much of it this causing the player base to drop like it did back then.
 

I’ll sum up the feeling people have had and will have if this avenue is implemented: it means if you don’t  spend several hours on the server a day you might as well not play at all because you won’t make reasonable progress. Having to spend 6-7 hours grinding for the 1-3 hours of enjoyment is not good game design and it’s why multiple servers and multiple games die out.

@Anton Tikhonovich@Alex Hinkley@Raphael Mephistopheles @Kaladin Sulzberger Can you not handle the demand?

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Hello I'm Liam Forder I joined anzus in 2019 and ive been in staff ect and im also a Patrol SGT rn, in my opinion the whole rebel normal method works best for me. I mainly main cop but enjoy jumping on civ and there maybe being in a gang rarely. I think the crafting method is cool but I defiantly think just bring class 2/3s in rather than only class 2s for abit of time. 

Also I checked the major logger, the last 10 majors 15/01/2023-16/01/2023, cops have won every single one. So I think civs should be given class 3s asap to give them a fairer chance because its easier to kill a whole cop force with a class 3 than with a pistol. 

I also think this is just a game where everyone wants so have fun and what's the point complicating it so much, class 3s bring another aspect to the game + experience and holding them back is kinda dragging it. I don't think anzus has ever been pistols only for this long ever (from what I've seen). So i don't see the issue with putting them in rebel shops. 

I also think default class 3s should be 4k-5k then better ones above that, class 3s in 2.0/3.0 were like 30-40k so that's the point basically making them 150k old ecom? Its just a game in my opinion so I don't see the point restricting everyone for ages and longing it out to use guns.

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22 minutes ago, Liam Forder said:

Its just a game in my opinion so I don't see the point restricting everyone for ages and longing it out to use guns.

Likely because the concern is that what may be enjoyable for you, may be a detriment to others and ruin their experience. That's why it's important that we find a balance which keeps people of all playstyles at least content. 

Fraggy boys should be able to enjoy their combat playstyle without the roleplay and grinder groups having less fun as a result.

Right now, as a cop main I've been able to do normal police work like traffic stops and investigations without getting taken 'hostage' (AKA robbed), or being pulled away from my cop fun to go do major crimes every time I start getting into it. I wouldn't want Class 3 availability or restrictions to make majors too common, or make the combat fellas start seeing cops as a loot source like they did back on Kamdan. 

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Here is my thought; Options 1 or 2

Reason: First of all people already have class 3s... a decent amount just from pirate ship or labs... why not make getting class 3s require some work and RP. I think the idea of letting crafters be the main seller is brilliant and would give DTU more work to find them etc... I thinking if class 2s are at rebel make them at an inflated price to incentives using crafters, labs or pirate ship. 

To be entirely honest... keep rebel as is (pistols and rebel gear only) and just allow for people to use class 3s they buy from crafters, get from pirates ship or get from labs.

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2 hours ago, Doug Jumper said:

KD can handle the demand for legal sales. The issue is, we don’t make as much as what we had put into the company. Millions were spend on warehouses in 5.3 and 5.5, but the profit gain after total expenses was very minimal. With DSA off the board, we have even less customers, which is a secondary reason for us pushing for more weapons and licensing for Class 2 and 2-A. A lot of KD is just off-duty police or government officials, because we cannot license people that have been convicted of a felony. Truthfully, it’s not a easy company to run. It’s very grindy. There’s just not as much profit made here which is a turn off for new employees that don’t make much. Once you get into a suited warehouse with moderate upgrades, it makes things less stressful. 

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Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

Reasoning: I have thoroughly enjoyed the class 1 game-play and the activity level tells me I'm not alone. I think situations and combat are better when weapons aren't as powerful. You can allow some threshold of risk now (ie. running from cover to cover, flanking, pushing, etc without getting killed the instant a pixel shows.) and make larger plays in challenging situations. I've never been a huge fan of Class 3's roaming the island freely because I find it more immersive and less mil-sim to use realistic weapons. I could understand the use in gang wars, faction v faction crimes, AND MAYBE (MAYBE)  for cartel enforcement (when fees are denied or it's time to show muscle, overarming the cartel could create an interesting dynamic where their authority is elevated.).

I understand that the combat players may find it a bit restrictive, but I feel that Class 3's should be a special occasion.

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13 hours ago, Doug Jumper said:

We can handle it, but its just going to take time, and the RP needs to be there, AKA they need to establish the connections they need to buy from us, As walking up to me and asking "Hey anton, I need a class 3, Watcha got?" will have me tell you we dont sell class 3s to civilians. So Class 3s if only bought from crafting will keep the pipe clogged by the time it takes to craft and them knowing the right people (AKA Gangsters/Bikers/Mafia) Personal I think the option where the crafters control it will be the best, this allows the supply of class 3s to be kept small as we have to make them, and gives SMGs a chance to shine for once

Edited by Anton Tikhonovich
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Option 2 but with teh freedom to use them anywhere!!! Theres some interesting things to craft. When your high lvl and supply gangs >:).

Edited by Lucifer Riddle

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