Assault Rifle/Class 3 re-implementation discussion

[Damin Langdon]

I Like Option 2 But I Am Going to Tweak It a Little Bit

Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones 

 

I Like This Idea but I Would Add Option 3 in At a Later Time So the Island Don't Die Off.  

But I Would Do.... -

Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used Anywhere

 

[Ryan O'Malley]

1 hour ago, Doug Jumper said:

Hello everyone, I hope you're enjoying 6.0. Player wise it's officially the most successful release even topping 3.0 playtime, big ups to everyone who made it possible.

For those who are new Class 3 = assault/automatic rifles. 

Class 3s have been a hot topic this week after Lewis millers thread popped off a bit. We always said pistol only will be for 2 weeks then we will look at discussing how we want to release class 3s and that time is here. 

6.0 has had a completely different vibe and there is worry from SMT that class 3's could effects this, we want to implement class 3's in a way where it will not effect the vibe whatsoever. We understand we need to start sinking the economy and that a lot of the combat andies are getting a bit bored. This transition has to be done right though.

My question to the community is, what way do you think we should implement class 3s?

Noteable recommendations from Lewis millers thread:

Note - These are beginning recommendations, the end situation will always result in class 3s in rebel for an affordable price based on the economy.

Option 1: (From me)
- Bring back class 3s in rebel at 20-30k (or a a high number) to begin with
- Add class 2s in rebel for a affordable price
- Allow class 3s to be bought from crafters (Note crafting is A LOT easier in 6.0, some people are already level 70+ and have a big stock of C3S. They will be affordable regardless of rebel price)
- Class 3s can only be used in the baron land(Rebel and above) and Majors.

Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

Option 3:
- Go back to normal straight away (Class 3s in rebel for cheap and allowed to use anywhere)

These are just 3 different ideas, doesn't have to be this way I am 100% open to hear what the community thinks.

To achieve what I want from this thread short +1 responses are not wanted, we want well thought out responses. 

Important things to add in your response

• How much you believe class 3s are worth
• How you believe they should be accessed
• Where they should be used

This thread is very important for the future of ANZUS, we won't have an opportunity to re-do this until 7.0 at the latest.

Option 3, major crimes are pointless with pistols at the moment

[David Krieger]

Hello gamers,

I love all the option and suggestions that I’ve read through. I think going to full class 3s would kill the vibe a bit. So I think also not having them we would start seeing a decline in gang population. All class 1 combat has slowed down. So my opinion on and option is a mix of Doug’s 2 & 3. 
 

I say rebel gets class 2s added for inexpensive price and also added class 3s for 20-30k. Making class 3s available at all times helps if there’s a gap in crafters as well it hurts the economy if people buy it.  But with adding class 2 & 3s back they should be allowed to use anywhere on map for any situation. Crafters will have most of the work for class 3s so it gives opportunity for more role play too.  Thank you for your time. At the end of the day this is my opinion so do what you think is best. 

[Edward Suarez]

From what you have been talking about in bringing the economy up, I believe Option 2 would best fit your ideals for the economy, it would allow for more Roleplay in the sense of trading illegal firearms to buyers and would bring more economy in as people trade money from runs for goods.... This would then also would create not such a high influx of weapons right away, if you were to go with Option 1 straight away. 

Personally Option 2 would be a good start, bring in buyable Class 2 firearms and allow roleplay and trading between members of the community for Class 3's. Then later on if you choose to, bring in Option 1... Just my personal opinion as I like Roleplay and Economies...

[Luca West]

I think option 3 is the best option, if people want to use pistols or class 2s or whatever, but I think a lot of people will appreciate class 3s coming back to what they used to be 

[Lewis Miller]

What I want - option 3 

what I think will benefit the server/community the most - Option 2 

HOWEVER. I feel like going back to normal is still possible just with a different approach. I think adding class 3s back as normal is what should happen now however as you have said remove some of the cracked/good versions from rebel and make them craft only. Also keep the prices high at the start but no restriction on where it can be used, instead HOW it can be used. For example keep it so you cannot rob legal runs at all so it doesn’t effect the people who run businesses and make it so class 3s cannot be used in cities excluding majors. I feel like a majority of the population resides around the cities to keeping the class 3 combat to the open areas and away from those high pop points can help solve the problem with people getting effected by class 3s.

I think also going with option 3 make it a no tolerance period for anything involving class 3s. So the people who act like monkey and ruin other peoples time and result in the complains actually get delt with. 
 

I think it’s time class 3s come back a lot of people are getting restless and want them back. Even if it’s the “combat andies” there is still a lot of us and we all just want to enjoy the class 3 combat again. 

Price of the lowest Class 3 - 6k

Price of hte highest class 3 - 15k 
^^^ Rebel only 

This is double the price of the old class 3s but also reasonable

on a side note you should all go like MY thread and post your comment on there also…

Edited January 15, 2023 by Lewis Miller

[Charlie Beckham]

I personally think either of these options

Option 1: (From me)
- Bring back class 3s in rebel at 20-30k (or a a high number) to begin with
- Add class 2s in rebel for a affordable price
- Allow class 3s to be bought from crafters (Note crafting is A LOT easier in 6.0, some people are already level 70+ and have a big stock of C3S. They will be affordable regardless of rebel price)


Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
 

 

I do think they was a bit to easy to get in the past but raise the price a bit to make it so crafters can sell/benefit from all the work of crafting. or Gangs can have a crafter etc and with no restriction to where the Class 3's can be used. Class 1's are decent for a bit or when you choice to do so but when it is forced it sucks after a week.

[Jesse Tigerwood]

MY OPINION AS A PLAYER NOT AS DEV OR STAFF:

Add class 2's to rebel
Allow crafters to run the class 3 market (From my understanding the problem on 4.0 was that crafters could not keep up with demand, which increased prices)
Add class 3's to the darkweb/bitcoin shop
Don't add any restrictions on where class 3's can be used (possibly add some restictions to the orlando. Incase it becomes a fragfest and people aren't able to rp)

 

[Mort Higgins]

In my opinion, I think going with a player ran C3 market to begin with is a smart idea, this adds more roleplay interaction and allows crafters and the player base to change the market, it has massive roleplay opportunities and it can work well. Slowly after time goes on, class 3s can be more integrated, I think C2 should be the available option in rebel and regular police such as patrol should only have class 1s, if SWAT is rolling around and acting as a SWAT team they will carry Class 2/3s but it should be as and when. 

I think the right balance is necessary but hard to accomplish, but the player base running the markets is a good idea in general. Class 3s are extremely valuable for both Civs and Cops, being regularly available and used all the time takes away from the realism part, due to everyone just having a giant rifle, and just becomes a giant shooter clusterfuck.

With regards to price, 5-15k for Class 2s and 20k+ for Class 3s, depending on their tier/power.

[William Ouellette]

I personally like the sound of option 2

[Jordan Goulding]

As someone who has been enjoying pistol combat and enjoying not being shot from some Guerilla Fighter in a bush from 700m every engagement being the norm lately I also see the need to up the ante a bit from pistols finally for fun urban engagements from beyond 100m. I also think the best result is to ensure crafters are involved in whatever way the vote goes as its a shame to see these players actively grinding levels and then the average joe just buying a cheap 556 preventing any interaction with the crafters.

I also wanna quickly give my opinion on if we do go to class 3's I would rather we do red dots/holographics/none magnified scopes for a bit instead of going straight for magnified scopes. I'd much rather a scope nerf than to limit when and where the weapons can be used.

Onto my optional choice votes. I'd rather option 1 or 2 preferably. I think going straight for option 3 would not be a good decision. Just my thoughts as a cop main who enjoys interactions and not every traffic stop being seen as a free opportunity to pocket wipe a cop for his kit. Too often do players think with their gun and not their brain once they have a class 3. This isn't all players, just some of the ones most cop mains like myself would rather actively avoid for this exact reason.

[Wes Clark]

Hey, been in this community for a while now, I really like the idea of 2 & 3 combined. 

I think there's a nice medium of where every kind of player has their way. There should be a way so that everyone whether they're wanting to frag, do runs and not get robbed everywhere, and still be able to have access to the entire weapon arsenal without having to grind for days on end to have enough money. Having C2s and C3s back in rebel make it easier to obtain the guns at all times of the day, not having to wait for "Crafters" to be online if they decide to take a break, or being in a constant time zone difference if you live somewhere different compared to a majority of the server. Although, I think having them in rebel for a slightly higher price would be reasonable for crafters that want to make money by selling C2 & C3s. 

Being able to craft a weapon shouldn't be a terrible process like it was at the beginning of 4.0 but I think it should still take a decent amount of resources so that the market isn't completely destroyed. Though I also believe that crafters should have access to a "C4" type of arsenal such as AWM's etc. that they will have to grind much longer to make, and be able to make a much higher profit on. 

When It comes to majors and lab raids, I think that you should be able to find C2's and C3's inside of lab raids, at a very low percentage and even having a possibility of some majors maybe giving a c3 as a bonus. Whether if its a locked crate that you sometimes get a key for, or if its just something that you can trade to Ghost at rebel for a higher tier weapon. As fun as majors are, I think if there's a higher bonus on top of money that players can hope for, it will bring much more variety into what people are running. 

Lastly, I think that all weapons should be able to be used everywhere, I feel like there's no sense in limiting. There are laws for a reason and rules in place to protect people that like runs. 

[Marcus Gray]

I like option 1, but I think that if we have a player ran class 3 market, there shouldn't be restrictions on where you can use them as outlined in option 1. Having a player ran class 3 market I think would add some interesting roleplay.

 

[Sigurd Steele]

My opinion on the topic of class 3's is

1. add class 2s to the rebel shop and let them be used freely. 

2. Add class 3s to the transport truck, Smug boat, airdrop crate, pirate boat, these can also be used freely. (High risk losing a 3 that can only be found)

3. Run this for 5 days, Monday to Saturday. If people like it, keep it for another week and then release crafters to sell 3s and let them control the gun market. 

4. (maybe) - Military base I'm not sure if it's a major because I've never seen it pop. But make the robbery there give class 3s of x amount. 

5. after x amount of time release 3s to the shops - say 3-6 months from now

Edited January 15, 2023 by Sigurd Steele

[Patrick King]

whatever isaak red said 

[Steve Eriksen]

maybe try do legal class 3's e.g. there semi auto and then illegal ones could be crafted

[Avon Kalifa]

Personally i like the idea of class 2s being the main weapon used by both civs and cops. Class 3s should be a more rare item that is only able to be purchased from crafters and what not. now i know that crafters already have a stock pile so for the first month or so class 3s should only be able to be used at major crimes and what not.

[Scotty Grahner]

Option 3 is the best bet. I remember when class 3s were made expensive and  tried to implement crafting. Two main outcomes came of this, player count dropped and toxicity in death chat was at an all time high. No one wanted to lose their 200k gun and took anger out on others.

Personally, I don’t think the standard guns should be grindy to get. I always viewed crafting as the way to get a bunch of high tier weapons like 7.62s, snipers, etc. The standard 5.56 guns like the colt commando, HK416, M4 tact should be relatively cheap (ranging 5-7k). People will still use crafters to purchase guns, I can’t tell you how many guns I bought off KD during Kamden. Doing this allows crafters plenty of room to set competitive prices. If a gun at rebel was 25k (250k old economy), then something like a MK1 would be around 140k (1.4 mil old economy). And then there would just be a general lack of buyers and be counter productive, no one is going to spend that much on a single gun let alone reliably.

 

I would like to reintroduce my idea of having minor crimes be done with class 1s and 2s only and change some stuff like swat base to be a minor crime. I know some combat andys might not like restrictions, but this discussion is all about compromise for both parties. Plus, ill be honest, people popping minors with class 3s are mostly doing it to shoot something, the payout is abysmal for the risk. It gives people who are less combat inclined some form of robbery to do and roleplay out with the cops during negotiation. 
 

Lastly, the issue of grinding. Grinding should be a way to obtain advanced things for you to use, penthouses, expensive cars, player hideouts, warehouses, etc. But one thing I noticed is that these aren’t “essentials”. Just QoL changes and upgrades to make your grind more efficient or show off your cool vehicles and such. But class 3s shouldn’t be grindy to get, they are sort of essential. They allow people to participate in majors, gang activity, and allows the standard individual to defend their runs.

 

There are lots of reasons why I think option 3 is the best bet. With that said, I don’t think you should ever include higher tier weapons into rebel. Tavors, 7.62s, snipers, etc should never be in rebel, no matter how expensive they are. People should look to crafters and establishing a deal for them.

[Loxxon Husky]

46 minutes ago, Sigurd Steele said:

 

4. (maybe) - Military base I'm not sure if it's a major because I've never seen it pop. But make the robbery there give class 3s of x amount. 

Military Base already gives out class 3s and 2s 

You need 13 cops to do it

[Alex Brown]

i feel like we should start out with option 1 or 2 and maby a month in or at the 6.2 update we can use option number 3 

[Jack Chapman]

I think it needs to be a bit of a mix. Bring back class 3's to rebel but at a higher price (for the ADHD Andies), but make it affordable to buy them from crafters instead.

Make sure prices aren't stupid for cops, since when they are forced to use them they don't stand to make any profit.

I wouldn't say restrict them to only majors, forcing a narrative always kills fun & RP. There can be plenty of other good uses for them, so long as civs have an actual financial risk when using them.

[Ryan Hancock]

Welp. Okay. Brutally honest time. This has been done before and it flopped badly of which resulted in Anzus player base dropping considerably in 4.0. This feels like a re-run of previous mistakes. 

25k for a class 3 is ridiculous you’ll be doing a Knox and a payout will only just cover the class 3 you used if your lucky. Nevermind other majors won’t cover the cost of a class 3.

Conflict will completely die off if this becomes a thing so all the hard work you’ve put into conflict will be thrown out the window so if this becomes a thing you might as well remove conflict with it. 

Not to mention the fact that people grew to hate crafters only for class 3s cause crafters could never keep up with the demand of the players wanting constant class 3s. It just doesn’t work. If crafters are offline and player has no class 3 they don’t want to play because they can’t get a class 3 to use or have to pay a ridiculous amount for a class 3 which won’t happen and will drive players away. Not all people want to have to constantly contact crafters for class 3s. 

Anzus already has so many massive money sinks, don’t make another one.

Majority of people in 4.0 grew to hate SMGs and Pistols only in shops so don’t repeat that again.

I’m all for low tier class 3s being in shops for a reasonable price and higher tier being crafting but anything less than that is a big no from me.

Overall I feel Option 3 is the best one for Anzus as a whole and the longevity of Anzus alongside keeping the player base happy.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Ryan Hancock

[Houston Carrion]

Option 3:
- Go back to normal straight away (Class 3s in rebel for cheap and allowed to use anywhere)

These are just 3 different ideas, doesn't have to be this way I am 100% open to hear what the community thinks.

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Houston Carrion

[John Kingston]

I strongly believe option 2 is a good idea, class 3 for majors and conflict ECT. and I would say keep them in rebel and class 2 in rebel as well. but make them a affordable but not to affordable. . But on a side note I belive we should migrate to class 2 or a lower end of class 3 first then allow crafting of them but still limit where they are used. 

[Matt Pad]

4 hours ago, Hunter Uzamaki said:

Hello Long time arma player, 

 

I believe there could be a best of both worlds scenario for the Role players, Crafters, and Fraggers to meet in a somewhat middle ground. My opinion/suggestion is as follows 

 

 

The Ideal idea would be to put Class 3's into rebel for a decent price as Doug stated in Option 1.

allow the crafters to  only able to make the high tier weapons as well as WP's to produce more fighting in the upper areas.

this including snipers such as AWMs, 7.62 weapons like the Troy, and many more high power rifles. Thus giving a reason for crafters to control the higher tier market for guns creating it almost like a royalty to be able to own and craft one.

The War Points would make it so you can get mid to high-low tier weapons to peruse more fighting into conflict and capture zones inducing for the fraggers to have more than just gang money to care about.

and for lab raids only allow the low tier C3s to be put in there but make it like an uncommon item to get vs C2s and C1s loot table

make Getting Class 3’s hard to get into lab raids so they aren’t farmed for free guns and kill the market this way. Make it like a rare or low chance of receiving one. 
 

Persoanlly I think Class 3’s need to be a thing that is some what easy but a bit grindy to get.  I would still like to see them be able to be used all around Florida and not restricted to majors only. There are multiple loop holes to that and can get troublesome for long term issues.

I agree with everything here except for labs. I think there should be some decent weapons in there as its kinda high risk high reward sort of deal. Since you cant loot players the only way to "farm guns" in labs is to find them which from my experience in 5.5 is mainly just pistols are rarely class 2s (deagles and revos).