Assault Rifle/Class 3 re-implementation discussion

[Jackson Woods]

I like the idea of Class 3's being a crafters market sold from people to people makes them a little more rare and gives cops and civs good role play on taking down people with class 3's and the only allowing them to be used in redzones and majors

[Frost Armstrong]

Option 1: (From Doug)
- Bring back class 3s in rebel at 20-30k (or a a high number) to begin with only a couple low end mid tier like 2 class 3's
- Add class 2s in rebel for a affordable price
- Allow class 3s to be bought from crafters (Note crafting is A LOT easier in 6.0, some people are already level 70+ and have a big stock of C3S. They will be affordable regardless of rebel price)
- Class 3s can only be used in the baron land(Rebel and above) and Majors.

Im a fan of option one but a few things id like see changed about it
- 15-25k instead of 20-30k just so those that are still getting on for the first time are able to to get one without to much issue
- adding class 2s back at affordable prices no changes heres
- Allow Class 3's to be bought from crafters specifically the mid to higher end mid tier of class 3's and all high tier class 3's
  With a few mid tier Class 3s being able to be grabbed from majors like milship and a very low chance to drop a high tier Class 3 from fort Knox
- Class 3s only at majors and the rebel zones and KOS zones only for 2 weeks or until 6,1 and then either have another community vote or just push it out to allow class 3s everywhere

Edited January 15, 2023 by Frost Armstrong

[Seska]

In my opinion, the overall feel of ANZUS since pistol-only has been really nice. It's been really enjoyable as a cop main to be able to do traffic stops or speed traps without being viewed as a talking loot drop by the apes that don't care about RP. I'm on ANZUS to play a role and socialize, not feature in some kids over-saturated, third-person, max FOV fragtage set to a shitty drill track and edited in Filmora. 

That said, I recognize their necessity given our unfortunate community playstyle split. 

I'd suggest Option 2, but with the omission of location-based use, as I think that will be needlessly painful to enforce, with little overall gain. 

If you do down that route, I think you'll need to tighten rules on robbing cops, or taking them 'hostage' but stripping them anyway, as cops will definitely be targeted by the combat andies when they're either too lazy or poor to speak to a crafter for their Class 3s, and if cop RP gets killed to the point that it was back in Kamdan, I don't see myself playing at all. 

I've made a rule adjustment suggestion in the Staff Suggestions section on Discord, as I believe it deserves its own discussion, and will be necessary if access to C3's becomes in anyway partially restricted. 

[Brody Sanchez]

Over the past few weeks, the server has been awesome. The pistol only has been very fun, as it's something different than what we're used to. I think class 2's should slowly start to be introduced into Rebel shop for people to buy them there & crafters being able to sell them as well. I do think that they should be able to be used anywhere. Class 2's should be priced anywhere from 10-30k

Class 3's on the other hand should for now, in my opinion, only be accessible from crafters who can sell them at a higher price (15-30k).

Basically, add class 2's & 3's to the server and see how it goes. Evaluate if any changes has to be made along the way, and just take it step by step until the perfect spot for the community has been found. It's better to do things slowly and evaluate on them, instead of pushing all the class 3's out now and then people not liking it.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Alexis Sanchez

[Jake Kaiser]

Option 2 & 3 

I like option two and is differant from option 3 like normal so im going towards 2 but i like option 3 aswell like it used to be IDK

[Nathan Stevens]

31 minutes ago, Ryan Hancock said:

Welp. Okay. Brutally honest time. This has been done before and it flopped badly of which resulted in Anzus player base dropping considerably in 4.0. This feels like a re-run of previous mistakes. 

25k for a class 3 is ridiculous you’ll be doing a Knox and a payout will only just cover the class 3 you used if your lucky. Nevermind other majors won’t cover the cost of a class 3.

Conflict will completely die off if this becomes a thing so all the hard work you’ve put into conflict will be thrown out the window so if this becomes a thing you might as well remove conflict with it. 

Not to mention the fact that people grew to hate crafters only for class 3s cause crafters could never keep up with the demand of the players wanting constant class 3s. It just doesn’t work. If crafters are offline and player has no class 3 they don’t want to play because they can’t get a class 3 to use or have to pay a ridiculous amount for a class 3 which won’t happen and will drive players away. Not all people want to have to constantly contact crafters for class 3s. 

Anzus already has so many massive money sinks, don’t make another one.

Majority of people in 4.0 grew to hate SMGs and Pistols only in shops so don’t repeat that again.

I’m all for low tier class 3s being in shops for a reasonable price and higher tier being crafting but anything less than that is a big no from me.

Overall I feel Option 3 is the best one for Anzus as a whole and the longevity of Anzus alongside keeping the player base happy.

100% agree with ryan on this. Everyone I have talked to recently just wants class 3s. Like Ryan said in the past this has been tried and it didnt work. IMO what you could do to make crafters still involved is to have higher tier weapons being crafted by them and keep rebel simple for the most part. Like Doug said crafter is way easier, im sure there are plenty of people right now that can already start to craft those higher tier weapons. I think just adding the weapons in instead of making a go around for people to complain another week about will be better (Including myself lol).

[Pres. Fidel Castro]

Class 3's | Purchased at Rebel for x2 the price you could get them from Crafters for

Class 3's | Only allowed to be used at major crimes

Class 2's | Can be purchased for a regular price, can be used at minor crimes (Gas station, Jewelry, etc..

 

This keeps pistol play active for a lot of situations

Edited January 15, 2023 by Fidel A. Castro

[Raphael Mephistopheles]

~ Raphael has entered the chat... ~

I want to push for keeping the population high and entertaining for as long as possible. This means new content and a change of normal routine is what I'm aiming for. In the past, we had times where we had eased into Class 3's by starting off with crafters selling them, making it more of a player economy. Then there were times where small bundles of Class 3's were added into Rebel throughout weeks. I'd like to propose a option that adds small bundles of Class 2's into Rebel/PD shops which may extend over the course of a week or two, and during this time we can allow crafted Class 3's to be used in Conflict/Capture points and Majors only.

This allows the majority of the population (which I don't feel will be doing Conflict/Capture or Majors often) to continue their grind for money/xp and roleplay. There are several people that I know will utilize Class 2 and Class 2-A weapons. Most WL Civilian factions have Class 2's in their crafting bench and allowing more focused Class 2 and 2-A combat for the majority of Florida will also include more matched force between Cops and Civilians. This should also encourage more people to sink money into Extended Carry Licenses for Class 2-A's. I've had a more enjoyable time here while we have had Class 1's as opposed to the end of Kamden. I know Class 3's weren't the sole reason, but I also don't want to see people getting big heads and ruining role play situations for others. I like the slow and easy approach, and I'll agree that after two weeks of Class 1's, we can step it up a notch.

With this idea in place, there is the possibility to see; All WL Civilian Faction guns, every MP5 variant, Para AUG, ADR97, PDW2000, Protector, Vermin, AWM, Saiga-12, Winchester, Desert Eagle, and a few others.

Here's the definitions of Firearms Classifications: 

[Scotty Grahner]

I'll be frank, I don't see option 2 working. Like @Ryan Hancocksaid, the player base dropped. In an ideal world it would be great, but making class 3s cost 25k (which is 250k old economy) would mean even majors won't net a profit after cuts. For newer people, class 3s use to cost 50-70k. Meaning, since we scaled the economy back 10x, it should cost 5-7k per class 3.

 

Secondly, option 2 simply doesn't work because of the demand. Even during Kamden crafting groups like KD with numerous members would take around a week to finish one's order for a few class 3s. In an ideal world, option 2 would be the best, but this isn't an ideal world. Every time option 2 has been tried people claimed that "they'll grind enough to match the demand" and it has never happened leading to a drastic loss of population. If option 2 is selected again, I doubt it would work this time. Especially since it's not during the summer where many people have more free time, instead, many of the community are dealing with university classes + work.

And to add onto that, remember when people were banned for doing deals of discord as metagaming and fail RP? That's right, if you wanted to sell guns and set up a deal and time to be on the server you aren't allowed to do it over discord. I feel like that's something a lot of people are missing, which means, you'll have to be on the server 24/7 and possibly sacrifice your time schedule to even make deals.

[Dominic Salvatore]

Been here since 2.9, and I'm open to a lot of options. Two major points I see being discussed is PRICE and CRAFTING. 

Price: 20k+ for a basic class 3 is absolutely insane. This makes doing majors with class 3s basically unpractical for the average player. Sure, there's plenty of "rich" players on ANZUS but there's also way more folk who only get to play for an hour or two a night. They shouldn't need to spend half their playtime just trying to be able to afford one class 3 and have it taken away. I know I personally wouldn't be motivated to do runs just to afford such expensive weapons to do a major. The economy has gone through many significant changes since my time here, and one thing I noticed is the harder you make things, the less motivated people become to play civ or play all together.

Crafting: Everyone knows 4.0 was a terrible time when Class 3s were almost only obtainable via crafters. There are too many combat-oriented players for the crafters to keep up with demand. Even if crafting is somewhat easier, it's still a heavy investment as it sits right now for the casual player due to how many different materials you need to gather, purchase a large enough house to store said materials, and take the time to get the crafting level up to where you can actually craft decent weapons. I've put in a decent amount of time to the server since 6.0 launched, and I only made enough for a trailer house (20k), a few decent vehicles like the ford raptor, WRX, a dump truck, and the 200k truck. Players who need to meet hour requirements on cop also have less time to put into time sinks like crafting. 

Ease our way into class 3s, with lower end ones available at Rebel, high end ones slowly being trickled into shop, with crafters being able to sell them at the start. Crafters will slowly die down in population anyways after a while, and we shouldn't rely too heavily on them as they'll get burnt out from crafting weapons 24/7 and not having any other content due to demand.

Class 3 price should be 5-15k (15k being the super high-end rifles, which only crafters will be able to sell at the beginning where they'll rake in the money). Class 2s should be 3-8k. Average folk shouldn't break the bank just to do a class 3 major with their friends, nor cop mains who barely make any money that want to take a break and hop on civ. 

[Reece Anderson]

I would like option 3 because buying a class 3 for 20k is way to expensive. Fighting cops would be terrible and greatly unfair with the cops having way less expensive guns and there be a lot more of them. 

[Squilliam McGuire]

My vote is option 3, don’t see an issue with tossing it in normal price.

[Tom Carter]

1 hour ago, Ryan Hancock said:

Welp. Okay. Brutally honest time. This has been done before and it flopped badly of which resulted in Anzus player base dropping considerably in 4.0. This feels like a re-run of previous mistakes. 

25k for a class 3 is ridiculous you’ll be doing a Knox and a payout will only just cover the class 3 you used if your lucky. Nevermind other majors won’t cover the cost of a class 3.

Conflict will completely die off if this becomes a thing so all the hard work you’ve put into conflict will be thrown out the window so if this becomes a thing you might as well remove conflict with it. 

Not to mention the fact that people grew to hate crafters only for class 3s cause crafters could never keep up with the demand of the players wanting constant class 3s. It just doesn’t work. If crafters are offline and player has no class 3 they don’t want to play because they can’t get a class 3 to use or have to pay a ridiculous amount for a class 3 which won’t happen and will drive players away. Not all people want to have to constantly contact crafters for class 3s. 

Anzus already has so many massive money sinks, don’t make another one.

Majority of people in 4.0 grew to hate SMGs and Pistols only in shops so don’t repeat that again.

I’m all for low tier class 3s being in shops for a reasonable price and higher tier being crafting but anything less than that is a big no from me.

Overall I feel Option 3 is the best one for Anzus as a whole and the longevity of Anzus alongside keeping the player base happy.

Whatever she said

[Johnny Robbing]

a acc forgot about the price so i think at least 15 k

yea one and two are about the same as 3.0 but the crafter doing class 3 kinda if cause they could sell one person for 10k then try charge someone else like 50k for the same gun but rest it look ok and tbh if u cant use pistol ur bad js x

Edited January 15, 2023 by Johnny Robbing

[speedy gonzalez]

i prefer option 3 more fun that way

[Johnny Robbing]

people only really want class 3 cause half them cant do jack with pistols and you know it true

[Tariq Jamal]

2 hours ago, Ryan Hancock said:

Welp. Okay. Brutally honest time. This has been done before and it flopped badly of which resulted in Anzus player base dropping considerably in 4.0. This feels like a re-run of previous mistakes. 

25k for a class 3 is ridiculous you’ll be doing a Knox and a payout will only just cover the class 3 you used if your lucky. Nevermind other majors won’t cover the cost of a class 3.

Conflict will completely die off if this becomes a thing so all the hard work you’ve put into conflict will be thrown out the window so if this becomes a thing you might as well remove conflict with it. 

Not to mention the fact that people grew to hate crafters only for class 3s cause crafters could never keep up with the demand of the players wanting constant class 3s. It just doesn’t work. If crafters are offline and player has no class 3 they don’t want to play because they can’t get a class 3 to use or have to pay a ridiculous amount for a class 3 which won’t happen and will drive players away. Not all people want to have to constantly contact crafters for class 3s. 

Anzus already has so many massive money sinks, don’t make another one.

Majority of people in 4.0 grew to hate SMGs and Pistols only in shops so don’t repeat that again.

I’m all for low tier class 3s being in shops for a reasonable price and higher tier being crafting but anything less than that is a big no from me.

Overall I feel Option 3 is the best one for Anzus as a whole and the longevity of Anzus alongside keeping the player base happy.

100% agree with ryan

[Ryan Allen]

I really like option 1 the best because it helps bring in the RP experience through a somewhat organic player ran economy. Also higher prices, in my opinion, 20-30k is where I would like to see the guns placed. I think higher prices force players to value their lives more than being able to buy an entire loadout for 10k and just keep dying over and over again.

I really don't think option 3 should even be an option. Option 2 is kind of like a slightly better version of option 3. In my opinion, option 1 blows the other choices out of the water.

[Jake Vercettii]

I swear we talked about class 3 prices before 6.0 was even dropping no? Why would we pay 25k or more for a standard class 3?? that is absolutely crazy. 25k being 250k in old economy lmfao.. I swear we talked about class 3's being around 5-12k or something like that. I personally hate doing runs I cant stand sitting there doing that when I could be out creating situations and having fun with everyone. I just don't think 25k is right, I don't think ill ever buy from rebel/shops at all if that were to be what the prices are especially after this economy change. Just add the class 3's with the regular price they would be from old economy converted to this new economy i.e, Colt Commando 40k old economy turns to 4k new economy. Everything will work out easy conflict will be done and majors will be actually worth doing. As of now majors are just a no go, why do a major a get around a cut of like 5k or something when there are people doing trucks of uranium making 15-16k in 20-30 minutes. Majors are useless as of now and if we keep it this way and add class 3's at 25k they just will never be done.

[Luc Riften]

7 hours ago, Doug Jumper said:

Hello everyone, I hope you're enjoying 6.0. Player wise it's officially the most successful release even topping 3.0 playtime, big ups to everyone who made it possible.

For those who are new Class 3 = assault/automatic rifles. 

Class 3s have been a hot topic this week after Lewis millers thread popped off a bit. We always said pistol only will be for 2 weeks then we will look at discussing how we want to release class 3s and that time is here. 

6.0 has had a completely different vibe and there is worry from SMT that class 3's could effects this, we want to implement class 3's in a way where it will not effect the vibe whatsoever. We understand we need to start sinking the economy and that a lot of the combat andies are getting a bit bored. This transition has to be done right though.

My question to the community is, what way do you think we should implement class 3s?

Noteable recommendations from Lewis millers thread:

Note - These are beginning recommendations, the end situation will always result in class 3s in rebel for an affordable price based on the economy.

Option 1: (From me)
- Bring back class 3s in rebel at 20-30k (or a a high number) to begin with
- Add class 2s in rebel for a affordable price
- Allow class 3s to be bought from crafters (Note crafting is A LOT easier in 6.0, some people are already level 70+ and have a big stock of C3S. They will be affordable regardless of rebel price)
- Class 3s can only be used in the baron land(Rebel and above) and Majors.

Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

Option 3:
- Go back to normal straight away (Class 3s in rebel for cheap and allowed to use anywhere)

These are just 3 different ideas, doesn't have to be this way I am 100% open to hear what the community thinks.

To achieve what I want from this thread short +1 responses are not wanted, we want well thought out responses. 

Important things to add in your response

• How much you believe class 3s are worth
• How you believe they should be accessed
• Where they should be used

This thread is very important for the future of ANZUS, we won't have an opportunity to re-do this until 7.0 at the latest.

Personally, I love option 2 but it would also be nice if for FSP there was a few class more class 2 options available to kind of combat the class 2's on the streets and then only taking out class 3's at majors or for red zones. Option 1 seems to me like that just inspires people to rob the FSP more because if rifles are 20k-30k the FSP will be the next best option for rifle availability. If we add in class 2's for rebel imo we should add in a wider selection and also add the wider selection for FSP. If we add in a higher price for class 3's we would need to watch to make sure everyone isn't just robbing the FSP left right and center. I also feel like for use they should be a little more widely available than majors or red zones however I feel like with that being said we should kind of limit it at first like for the first week make it majors and red zones only and then open it up to general combat afterwards so it's not just class 3s flooding the streets. 

[Chriss Nugget]

I believe bringing back class 3s with a bit of a mix of option 1 and 2 excluding the fact that we cant use them any where i feel like class 3 make things a bit more fun and in some cases a bit more fair for example with the police response numbers I have been in multiple situations where it has been a 2 v 5 and the cops just rush in with the idea that we cant kill them all and to be honest we cant how are we even supposed to because we usually end up running out of ammo before being able to kill them all and just end up getting clapped while reloading and that just makes it boring, if we had class 3 there would be a better chance of winning situations like that. i feel like adding class 3s to rebel at high price gives crafters something to work towards and a good way of making money because if rebel sells them for 40k crafters are able to sell cheaper and that makes it so they don't have to be super high level crafting to sell the guns you cant get in rebel and instead can have many different options and make money even at the lower levels of gun crafting. basically at the end of the day if we cant get class 3s back for everything police response numbers when it comes to the 2.5 cops for every civ should be reduced somehow because lets be real we aren't all PVP chads while one person can handle 2 cops but 2 people most likely cant handle 5 if the cops just rush in and the civs aren't goated with the sauce in PVP and usually that's what the cops will end up doing and I'm not saying every situation is like this but this usually will happen at a gas station robbery or jewelry stores. 

[Doug Jumper]

3 hours ago, Ryan Hancock said:

Welp. Okay. Brutally honest time. This has been done before and it flopped badly of which resulted in Anzus player base dropping considerably in 4.0. This feels like a re-run of previous mistakes. 

25k for a class 3 is ridiculous you’ll be doing a Knox and a payout will only just cover the class 3 you used if your lucky. Nevermind other majors won’t cover the cost of a class 3.

Conflict will completely die off if this becomes a thing so all the hard work you’ve put into conflict will be thrown out the window so if this becomes a thing you might as well remove conflict with it. 

Not to mention the fact that people grew to hate crafters only for class 3s cause crafters could never keep up with the demand of the players wanting constant class 3s. It just doesn’t work. If crafters are offline and player has no class 3 they don’t want to play because they can’t get a class 3 to use or have to pay a ridiculous amount for a class 3 which won’t happen and will drive players away. Not all people want to have to constantly contact crafters for class 3s. 

Anzus already has so many massive money sinks, don’t make another one.

Majority of people in 4.0 grew to hate SMGs and Pistols only in shops so don’t repeat that again.

I’m all for low tier class 3s being in shops for a reasonable price and higher tier being crafting but anything less than that is a big no from me.

Overall I feel Option 3 is the best one for Anzus as a whole and the longevity of Anzus alongside keeping the player base happy.

I think this is a bad representation of reality.

4.0 was completely different when it comes to crafting levels and crafting guns. It is probably 10x easier now then it was back then. We've made it so people can easily sell guns at 4k-10k and still make a profit. If guns were 10-20k in rebel they would still be obtainable but cheaper from crafters. 

A lot of the reason 4.0 died was because it was hard across the board, and covid ended.. not just because of class 3s. 5.5 died A LOT more than 4.0 did when we were too focused on combat. 

You haven't played 6.0 so you don't know that Conflict you don't even lose your gear. 

I really want this conversation to be a good one but people blindlessly agreeing with people ignoring context will only hurt your cause.

In reality the safest way to do this is to put class 3s in the shop for 10-17.5k (ish) and make crafters be the forefront of the market and slowly lower the prices until its at a point where its balanced. If that means increasing majors to make it better, sure we can consider that. 

All respect Ryan, you know I got you homie just needed to say this.

[Johnny Robbing]

7 hours ago, Doug Jumper said:

I think its important to note crafting was extremely hard along with runs on 4.0 so I don't believe that is a good representation of what it could be and it would only be in crafting to begin with then eventually added back to rebel. Just so we can slowly drip it in.

this 1000 so true the problem was rubber and coal since both proc where across the map and u could only have steel pro in t he factory

[Garrett Winters]

Personally, I'm a EMS main so my opinion probably doesn't truly matter. I may not even have all the correct information from never playing civ. I do want to see class 3s come into the island soon but I think the slow approach to class 3 is a good idea but id also like to see the economy slow down from people buying class 3. I think a solution for this would to be add class 2's into rebel and make it so only class 3 can be bought from crafters for a period of time, another 2 weeks maybe? then add them into rebel at a higher price (5-10k) so people still have a reason to use crafters over rebel to get them cheaper.

[Filip Arbosa]

24 minutes ago, Doug Jumper said:

I think this is a bad representation of reality.

4.0 was completely different when it comes to crafting levels and crafting guns. It is probably 10x easier now then it was back then. We've made it so people can easily sell guns at 4k-10k and still make a profit. If guns were 10-20k in rebel they would still be obtainable but cheaper from crafters. 

A lot of the reason 4.0 died was because it was hard across the board, and covid ended.. not just because of class 3s. 5.5 died A LOT more than 4.0 did when we were too focused on combat. 

You haven't played 6.0 so you don't know that Conflict you don't even lose your gear. 

I really want this conversation to be a good one but people blindlessly agreeing with people ignoring context will only hurt your cause.

In reality the safest way to do this is to put class 3s in the shop for 10-17.5k (ish) and make crafters be the forefront of the market and slowly lower the prices until its at a point where its balanced. If that means increasing majors to make it better, sure we can consider that. 

All respect Ryan, you know I got you homie just needed to say this.

This is a good compromise IMO, allows civs to get class 3s quickly but incetivices civs to find crafters to satisfy their long term need w more competetive prices and better guns.