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Assault Rifle/Class 3 re-implementation discussion


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37 minutes ago, Doug Jumper said:

I think this is a bad representation of reality.

4.0 was completely different when it comes to crafting levels and crafting guns. It is probably 10x easier now then it was back then. We've made it so people can easily sell guns at 4k-10k and still make a profit. If guns were 10-20k in rebel they would still be obtainable but cheaper from crafters. 

A lot of the reason 4.0 died was because it was hard across the board, and covid ended.. not just because of class 3s. 5.5 died A LOT more than 4.0 did when we were too focused on combat. 

You haven't played 6.0 so you don't know that Conflict you don't even lose your gear. 

I really want this conversation to be a good one but people blindlessly agreeing with people ignoring context will only hurt your cause.

In reality the safest way to do this is to put class 3s in the shop for 10-17.5k (ish) and make crafters be the forefront of the market and slowly lower the prices until its at a point where its balanced. If that means increasing majors to make it better, sure we can consider that. 

All respect Ryan, you know I got you homie just needed to say this.

All respect although I personally feel that is a matter of opinion.

Apologies in regards to conflict I was not aware that had changed. 

My stipulation still stands in regards to supply in comparison to demand. Unless crafters are constantly online and are constantly making class 3s then I don’t feel it’ll be enough to keep up with the demand of players. 

I can agree 4.0 was harder across the board. Although it indicates that premise or basis did not work in my opinion (unless it is made extremely easy to craft), there was never really enough people crafting class 3s alongside a number of crafters got burnt out and left after constantly doing runs to keep up with demand.

From a player that was putting 30/40+ hours a week in 4.0 I can argue the point that covid ending was not the only reason to 4.0 player base dropping. A vast amount of players got fed up, bored etc. Although yes some did leave cause of covid ending.

I can agree 5.5 was too focused on combat but as stipulated before in my own opinion I do not feel making class 3s in shops expensive is exactly the right answer to counteract this. 

If class 3s in shops are more expensive I do feel major prices will need to be buffed. And if you want to give it a go by all means.

I will also like to bring up the point of people that will play in low player count times that they will struggle to find any crafters to supply their class 3s therefore forcing them to purchase at a higher price at a shop therefore draining their bank account and driving them away from wanting to play. This is only a potential problem that might occur (it might not) and I feel should be taken into consideration.

Although I still stand by my opinion with the best option being low tier class 3s in rebel for an affordable price and then crafters controlling the market of a wide variety of higher tier and better class 3/4s. Even if that means reducing some of the class 3s in the shops. My main concern still lies with me not wanting to see Anzus fall under a re-run of what has occurred in the past where it didn’t work resulting in player loss and lowered player retention.

Edited by Ryan Hancock
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I believe Option 1 to be best, but, it requires the Auction House to be added back...

All my reasoning has already been stated by other posts, the only other thing I'd say is that the addition of basic class 3s to rebel was the compromise we had to alleviate the situation on 4.0. Let's run with what we know and start from there. 

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41 minutes ago, Mitchell Murphy said:

I believe Option 1 to be best, but, it requires the Auction House to be added back...

All my reasoning has already been stated by other posts, the only other thing I'd say is that the addition of basic class 3s to rebel was the compromise we had to alleviate the situation on 4.0. Let's run with what we know and start from there. 

I feel like auction house defeats the purpose of roleplay and people are just roleplaying with a sign. What are your thoughts given that statement?

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Another point is gangs finished last wipe with 10s of millions in their gang banks. That wasn't sinkable and they had unlimited guns so rebel weapons being higher won't affect big gangs much as they can still buy with gang funds. Although conflict won't pay out as much it will still be a decent amount with fees, turfs and cap points. Then the non-gang people who don't have gang funds can go through crafters but they probably prefer that anyway.

 

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Ideally I would like option 2 but I dont think everyone likes that so I think option 1 is better. 5.5 had way to much combat (that's why I left in the first place and took a hiatus for 3 months). Their are lots of new people here that the combat people need to take in account for. Player retention is very important and I feel like option 1 would be the best because its sorta the middle of the road between option 2 and option 3. Option 3 as a whole should be off the table as look at what happend with 5.5 and option 2 should also be off the table because it can become way to grindy. Option 1 therefor would be the smartest middle of the road thing pick. In business you can't please all the customers but if you sort of somewhat please both sides then all is good. Better to have both sides have a little of something they both want vs one side getting all the control. Hope this makes sense. *Also class 3's should be allowed everywhere

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I think option 2 sounds the best out of them personally. I love class 2's a bunch and hope to see them get some use before class 3's are fully out. Which I think would happen if class 3's got restricted to crafters for awhile ONLY IF we get the auction house back. Without auction house, restricting to crafters becomes what dirty money became just a unneeded headache dude to peoples schedules not lining up 24/7. The main issue I have with this option however is the restriction of where a gun can be used based off a rule I just don't see that working out very well. Just see it increasing salt reports and nit picking rules.

Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

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I say option 3 personally, sure we can ring around the rosie with the idea of making it hard rp with tons of complicated ways to get class 3s or you can make them stupid expensive, which I havent done a run, but a backpack of rubies I hear is like 2.1k or something? I do not think class 3's should be at a crazy price like anything more than 9k. Because thats 90k old eco. And im NGL I would not be able to motivate myself to hop on and do like 2 hours of runs just to get one single class 3 and then bleed out at cartel, cap zones, or get shredded in a major. 

I think im saying this from a pov of the most realistic expectation of a player nowadays. I used to have time to absolutely dumb 200 hours bi weekly into the server. Now I MAYBE can play 2 hours a day, 4 absolute max. Which is unlikely. I work full time, still want to hang out with friends and shit. And I cant justify getting on and hitting rubies for hours to have 20 mins of fun. I understand trying to keep it grindy and difficult, cause just like I used to drop hundreds of hours a week, there are people doing that now probably. But the answer is not to increase prices of everything 3 fold of what it used to be. 

I want to play anzus, but I admittedly really play for PVP. I enjoy rp and I was a cop for a while, I can get into some fun cartel rp or courtcase stuff, etc. But I ultimately need class 3's and majors to stay interested to the slightest. 

Class 2's, I dont think its a good alternative, because in the past when I had them lying around I would use them, a lot of them are beyond inconsistent and just ruined my vibe in pvp overall.

Regardless of c3's added, I will still play, period. But nowhere near the amount that is possible, because I dont find it fun starting a run, and alt tabbing for 10 to 50 mins for processing, gathering, etc. And then doing that another time, just to buy a class 3. Why would some people who have crazy irl time restrictions, sign away their free hours one day to have 30 mins of fun the next. 

Thanks.

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9 hours ago, Doug Jumper said:

me as the fourth highest crafter in the server, Option 3 is going to be the best bet. Every single time in the past that class 3s have been limited in rebel or even when rebel was removed it did not end up well and people stopped playing or stopped wanting to play. Mo

Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

 

I was on another server that had semi auto rifles (ar & ak pistols etc) I think you should add those & work in class 2's/ smg's & add class 3's at high prices $35-50k  or make them rare but have those limited to the crafters, crate drops, mil ship, pirate ship etc it would make it more realistic & would give people more incentive to do those types activities, I think that also pushes for more roleplay situations class 3's are cool but I'll be honest this is my first time actually playing thru pistol only & the gun battles are way more exciting

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17 minutes ago, Doug Jumper said:

I feel like auction house defeats the purpose of roleplay and people are just roleplaying with a sign. What are your thoughts given that statement?

That is certainly true, but crafters can't be awake 24/7. I believe the Auction House fee needs to be highlighted to those using it and potentially increased. A fee not so much that it would make the auction house equal or worse than Rebel. But a fee that would certainly encourage the buyer to reach out to the poster and would allow a peer to peer transaction. 

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I'm gonna be honest, 20-30K is like a few hours of grinding with the best truck, best run, etc., and the truck already takes forever to get.

 

Crafting is good as it is right now, it allows Civs to get specialized class 3's that might not be in rebel... but this is where the dilema comes in, if you allow crafters to be the only ones with class 3's, people will start to hate crafters, just like hancock said, it always turns into the crafters can never meet the demand of the civs, and there's never a lot of class 3's around. 

 

The second option has been implemented before, it did not go well. It was not enjoyed, and people still had the same issues with crafters as I just mentioned. When it was implemented before, it was shit, boring, and overall unenjoyable. 20-30k is absurd for a class 3, I was assuming 10k would be the price for a good class 3, and like a cold would be 5/7k from the start. 

 

Option 1 limits class 3's to CTRG Base, Conflict, Majors, and Zones. Kind of goofy, don't think it would work out in the long run, what do you do if you're going from your house to conflict and boom a cop shows up and tries to pull you over, and now you get in a gunfight with your class 3 in Orlando, seems to me like it would create a lot of salt reporting. Just my thought on that though.

 

Obviously I'm a CTRG Brain goober, but I cannot see option 1 or option 2 actually working for the server population as a whole, and I can see it going south quickly with both options. 

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If we were to do option one or two we should add back the auction house. it's a lot easier to sell guns there then try and find people interested in buying them. plus it makes the market more competitive. there is still the motivation to not use it because of the fee but for those of us that are smaller operations it makes selling guns actually profitable. 

 

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1 hour ago, Doug Jumper said:

I feel like auction house defeats the purpose of roleplay and people are just roleplaying with a sign. What are your thoughts given that statement?

I understand where you are coming from. however you still get to see who is putting the guns for sale on the market. I would always interact with people at rebel encouraging them to look at my guns on the market. it makes the economy more competitive and people are still gonna do deals outside of it because of the fee. it makes selling guns soo sooo much nicer I ran my entire operation off that market in Kamden.

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I support the 20k - 30k price on class 3's but i would like to see something similar to class 2's, SMGs or pistol caliber weapons added back and after a while of that we work onto class 3s. just gotta have a way that class 3s arnt in full cycle during this time. so in short option 2 but i see that only making civs drive towards only running the red zones/ majors just so they can use them. But in closing im not a doctor and whatever happens... happens.

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Option 4, Add able to pick up downed people guns(Hobos can finally snowball off dead grubs) 
 

allow class 3 to be used for however one wants. Ram by crafters and high prices rebel ontop of weapon crates. You could add a higher advanced rebel perk to gain access to higher tier weapons and cars 
 

 

Just limiting it is just cringe because current combat is extremely limited

 

 

People that are voting here aren’t combat driven, a side part of the map should be heavily pvp influenced just like certain parts of the map is extremely safe and initially non robbable 

Edited by Nilo Bellic
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Option 1
- Bring back class 3s in rebel at 20-30k (or a a high number) to begin with
- Add class 2s in rebel for a affordable price
- Allow class 3s to be bought from crafters (Note crafting is A LOT easier in 6.0, some people are already level 70+ and have a big stock of C3S. They will be affordable regardless of rebel price)

 

Change


Class 3s can only be used anywhere however having a visible class 3 or if police report an individual with a class 3 that person is KOS by the police with no initiation regardless of code color, though perhaps 10 / 15 mins after they are last seen by police this KOS ends unless seen again with the class 3 .  This would allow people to use them to rob etc but would be more weary about flashing them about.  

Or instead of going as extreme as KOS remove police response limits on individuals with class 3's.

If you want to add an RP reason in the extremely unlikely event the above gets implemented could be that the Government has outlawed all assault rifles or something. 

I think an important thing to add, which no one seems to have touched on is that if you go for one of the options which heavily limit class 3's or make them alot harder to obtain you should also strip back police gear to only high ranking police having class 3's or SWAT. This would fit in well with the above because if an individual is seen with a class 3 more heavily armed police would be called in as it would in real life.  

Would make for some quite funny sits if you have some heavily armed rebel heavily outgunning a bunch of normal cops then the SWAT boys roll in. 

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"20-30k (or a high number) to begin with)" 
This is going to make people lose interest in any type of majors or combat with their class 3's because of the price they're being set at 
Do one major with 4 people half the cut you make isn't even profit because it goes straight to the guns you just had to buy. Just because people are already lvl 70+ doesn't mean they're going to craft people weapons most crafters are going to worry about their gangs and themselves like it should be. Just make it where crafting is good for making normal class 3's and higher tier class 3s but don't make people have to go up to people and buy guns off them for obsurd prices. You already know how this went in 4.0 just because it is "easier" to craft doesn't mean it is a great idea. Because civs will start making their own prices and the people that are higher up in crafting are just going to set the standard of those prices which IMO will make the rich even richer and people that have been trying to get class 3's. Civ ran ecos will probably just ruin the whole economy because of the prices that they can set. Which will be whatever the crafters desire. Some people will start selling cheaper then realize that people are buying more and more from others and the prices will start to rise because they get greedy for money. Crafting is just isn't a viable option for people to get class 3's. Please just don't make the same mistake as 4.0 because it will get really stale and its just going to be very boring because of how much grinding people have to do just to get one class 3.  We are all just looking to have fun on anzus again and not have to grind and not interact with anyone because we are just doing back and forth trips to do some runs to get a viable way of money to buy the class 3s. It has been two weeks the economy is set adding class 3's like they were before won't really ruin anything unless they are added in the wrong way.
 

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3 hours ago, Doug Jumper said:

I feel like auction house defeats the purpose of roleplay and people are just roleplaying with a sign. What are your thoughts given that statement?

@Doug JumperI agree with you, but I also believe that no matter how many crafters there are, they'll never keep up with demand, and they can't always remain 100% active enough to maintain the needs of the player base. Even if you have a ton of crafters, they still want to experience other content which means they'll need to do more than just runs for crafting materials. The auction house ensures that crafters don't need to baby sit players who are constantly wanting class 3s because they buy them and lose them 10 minutes later to cops. If you're only going to allow class 3s to be obtained by crafting, you'll need an auction house. I personally would like to see some class 3s in rebel though as people are sometimes hard enough to get a hold of already when you're just trying to rent a truck.

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I prefer option 3 and keeping it normal where you can buy class 3s from the rebel shop for a reasonable price, but in turn, I would not really mind for only the crafters to obtain class 3s but it needs to be a reasonable price and easy to obtain such as the auction house in rebel. I think that anything above 10k is absurd for a decent class 3. I should be able to get a good kit with a decent class 3 in a minute for around a 10k. 

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3 hours ago, Doug Jumper said:

Another point is gangs finished last wipe with 10s of millions in their gang banks. That wasn't sinkable and they had unlimited guns so rebel weapons being higher won't affect big gangs much as they can still buy with gang funds. Although conflict won't pay out as much it will still be a decent amount with fees, turfs and cap points. Then the non-gang people who don't have gang funds can go through crafters but they probably prefer that anyway.

 

The reason for gang bank being that high atleast for members of my gang is was because we bought from crafters, therefore you use your own money and not gang bank. 

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3 hours ago, Doug Jumper said:

I feel like auction house defeats the purpose of roleplay and people are just roleplaying with a sign. What are your thoughts given that statement?

First thing that comes to mind would be to limit the availability of the auction house, whether that be time (region) based or through some other method though I doubt it'll be a popular opinion.

You could also consider adding a Tax/Fee/Cut for Sales and Adding items to the AH where it wouldn't completely defeat the purpose of using the AH but it still promotes F2F sales as the buyer would receive full profit as opposed to getting their profit skimmed off the top by an automated marketplace.

7 hours ago, Raphael Mephistopheles said:

~ Raphael has entered the chat... ~

I want to push for keeping the population high and entertaining for as long as possible. This means new content and a change of normal routine is what I'm aiming for. In the past, we had times where we had eased into Class 3's by starting off with crafters selling them, making it more of a player economy. Then there were times where small bundles of Class 3's were added into Rebel throughout weeks. I'd like to propose a option that adds small bundles of Class 2's into Rebel/PD shops which may extend over the course of a week or two, and during this time we can allow crafted Class 3's to be used in Conflict/Capture points and Majors only.

This allows the majority of the population (which I don't feel will be doing Conflict/Capture or Majors often) to continue their grind for money/xp and roleplay. There are several people that I know will utilize Class 2 and Class 2-A weapons. Most WL Civilian factions have Class 2's in their crafting bench and allowing more focused Class 2 and 2-A combat for the majority of Florida will also include more matched force between Cops and Civilians. This should also encourage more people to sink money into Extended Carry Licenses for Class 2-A's. I've had a more enjoyable time here while we have had Class 1's as opposed to the end of Kamden. I know Class 3's weren't the sole reason, but I also don't want to see people getting big heads and ruining role play situations for others. I like the slow and easy approach, and I'll agree that after two weeks of Class 1's, we can step it up a notch.

With this idea in place, there is the possibility to see; All WL Civilian Faction guns, every MP5 variant, Para AUG, ADR97, PDW2000, Protector, Vermin, AWM, Saiga-12, Winchester, Desert Eagle, and a few others.

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I agree with Raphael, I do believe Class 2s should get their debut as opposed to collecting dust in everyone's SSD/HDD and I think some interesting situations can become of their reintroduction along with some surprises along the way.

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How much you believe class 3s are worth. I belive class 3s have always been too cheap. IMO when someone pulls a class 3 it should be an Oh shit moment. It never made sense to me that every random thug has a class 3. Most gangs should use pistols and only pull class 3s for special occasions

How you believe they should be accessed. I believe class 3s should be only accessible by crafters. It'll drive more business to crafters and make gangs needs some sort of interaction in order to buy them.

Where they should be used. Class 3s should be used ideally only in conflict, cap zones and majors. We all know the likely hood of people following that rule is very low. Since that's the case I would say make the prices so high so people will decide not to lose class 3s on dumb shit and only use them for worth while situations.

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