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Assault Rifle/Class 3 re-implementation discussion


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People need to stop ignoring the following and I suggest re-posting their suggestion. This is impossible establish a proper vote because every single option from both sides is pretending like facts don't exist and people are eating up without considering it.

- No matter what the vote is, we will end up with affordable class 3s in rebel, this vote is for a temporary change to see how it will go and so we don't kill roleplay off.

- Cheap class 3s and easy economy on 5.5 killed the server to the same level as the 4.0 economy changes did if not worse due to where ARMA 3 is now, so there has to be a middle ground where the roleplayers have a place no matter what.

- On 4.0 crafting only class 3s did affect the player base but so did the fact COVID ended, the map sucked, the economy was VERY grindy including crafting. Crafting is now 10x easier so they technically can do 10x the demand and the economy is probably 4-5x easier now as well. You can argue the fact you couldn't access class 3s was the biggest factor but stop ignoring the fact the other things were big reasons for a lot of people. This is not a matter of opinion, all of these things did contribute. If we had guns in rebel all those issues would of persisted and the player base likely may of tanked ending in the same result of changes on 4.5. For combat players to pretend like 4.0 would of been fine with class 3s are just not considering the facts. 

- We can't stay on no class 3s forever, so roleplayers should take this into consideration with their suggestions.

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Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones                                                                                                                                                                - Add back auction house                                                                                                                                                                                                  - allow unrestricted class threes

 

Most people when they do conflict buy burner guns, most crafters craft high end guns. so to restrict it to conflict only would make it hard for the smaller gangs to compete with the richer gangs. adding the auction house to rebel would make it possible to actually use class threes in conflict. trying to get guns from your house every time you die or buy from crafters would prove ineffective. frankly restricting class threes to these areas in my opinion would add a lot of work for staff enforcing this, and stress for players when they have class threes they are transporting to and from conflict/major.

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Option 2:
- Only add back class 2s to rebel
- Allow crafters to run the class 3 market
- Allow class 3s to be used at majors/red zones

This is a great starting point imo.

- Easier to implement, and then we can go from there and make changes later on depending on how things progress.

- This will give everyone the ability to start using Class 2s for all around use and class 3s for those who want to do majors/red zone for the pvp aspect. 

- Since class 3s will only be usable for majors/red zones it should reduce the demand/burden on crafters and give them time to start setting up a proper client base within RP. 

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I do not think option 1 is a good idea, 20-30k class 3s in rebel would be pointless because no one would buy them they would just go to crafters to get them. As a "combat player" I do not like class 1 or 2 combat it feels way to clunky. The best bet imo would be either let the crafters control the class 3 market and let class 2 be an affordable price at rebel, or only allow the low end class 3s to be bought at rebel and let the high end class 3 market be controlled by the crafters so that the people that put in the grind to get high level of crafting to make high end class 3s can profit off of it until we return to the normal prices for class 3s at rebel.

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Option 2 +1 

After reading the replies from the employees of KD and others in the forum I think this is the best option for equal balance. 

As stated, crafting gives those who are dedicated to it a marketplace for it, and rebel can be for those too lazy or ill-equipped to make it themselves. Best of both worlds, and crafting is much much easier. 

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Option 3 seems the best. At the end of the day there is no real issue with Class 3's being in the server, it feels like the combat focused area of the server is being restricted for no reason. There is no reason that more roleplay focused players and combat focused players can't co exist on the server at the same time. Just make separate zones for each/implement rules .

I personally haven't played 6.0 yet however have got the mods downloaded but I already know I would enjoy the server a lot more with Class 3's as I focus on combat more than roleplay.

In general I am unbothered with what happens as it will still be good craic but I feel that a lot more fun would be had with Class 3's being in the server.

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Option 3 is gud

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I want option 3

 

But If your talking about the best thing for server probably option 1 but slightly different.

- Olny have certain guns in rebel for 20-30k For example HK416 CQC Custom was the favourite from last .0 so have that in rebel. Along with the long barrel tac and G36. 

- Traders are able to sell everything else for their own price e.g the old tac that was 49k, colt commando, colt carbine, tavors etc.

 

This way people get what they want which is class 3s while being given the option to either spend a lot of money to get it from rebel or contact a trader do a little roleplay and get a cheaper gun for a cheaper price. I feel like this would be a great mix as its going to give:

- people the RP they want

- still give traders a monopoly over class 3s as a majority of people will buy from them as its cheaper and arguably the best guns (50k tac was goated)

- Gives the combat players (me) the class 3s they so much desire as im going insane

- Helps with the economy as either way money is going to go towards businesses/traders or disappear in rebel store.

In terms of restrictions i feel like its simple. No class 3s in city limits. So if you want to rob the gas station outside Orlando its gotta be class 1. If you want to rob a gas station in the middle of no where its whatever you want to use.

^^^

This helps as most RP is in the cities (orlando, miami, St peterberg) so class 3s cannot intervene with this.

Also a no rob ban on legal runs or civ clothing. ONLY exception to this would be if you know they are doing illegal run so you see them growing weed, processing at cocaine, uranium trader.

 

This is a all parties win post in my opinion and I might be tunnel visioned on my own perspective but I don't see any real complains that can be made. If I made a mistake quote me and tell me or criticism 

 

***by traders I mean player ran traders like KD or people who are high lvl not the ingame traders on map***

Edited by Lewis Miller
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33 minutes ago, Lewis Miller said:

I want option 3

 

But If your talking about the best thing for server probably option 1 but slightly different.

- Olny have certain guns in rebel for 20-30k For example HK416 CQC Custom was the favourite from last .0 so have that in rebel. Along with the long barrel tac and G36. 

- Traders are able to sell everything else for their own price e.g the old tac that was 49k, colt commando, colt carbine, tavors etc.

 

This way people get what they want which is class 3s while being given the option to either spend a lot of money to get it from rebel or contact a trader do a little roleplay and get a cheaper gun for a cheaper price. I feel like this would be a great mix as its going to give:

- people the RP they want

- still give traders a monopoly over class 3s as a majority of people will buy from them as its cheaper and arguably the best guns (50k tac was goated)

- Gives the combat players (me) the class 3s they so much desire as im going insane

- Helps with the economy as either way money is going to go towards businesses/traders or disappear in rebel store.

In terms of restrictions i feel like its simple. No class 3s in city limits. So if you want to rob the gas station outside Orlando its gotta be class 1. If you want to rob a gas station in the middle of no where its whatever you want to use.

^^^

This helps as most RP is in the cities (orlando, miami, St peterberg) so class 3s cannot intervene with this.

Also a no rob ban on legal runs or civ clothing. ONLY exception to this would be if you know they are doing illegal run so you see them growing weed, processing at cocaine, uranium trader.

 

This is a all parties win post in my opinion and I might be tunnel visioned on my own perspective but I don't see any real complains that can be made. If I made a mistake quote me and tell me or criticism 

Honestly I feel like this would be the best option.

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51 minutes ago, Lewis Miller said:

I want option 3

 

But If your talking about the best thing for server probably option 1 but slightly different.

- Olny have certain guns in rebel for 20-30k For example HK416 CQC Custom was the favourite from last .0 so have that in rebel. Along with the long barrel tac and G36. 

- Traders are able to sell everything else for their own price e.g the old tac that was 49k, colt commando, colt carbine, tavors etc.

 

This way people get what they want which is class 3s while being given the option to either spend a lot of money to get it from rebel or contact a trader do a little roleplay and get a cheaper gun for a cheaper price. I feel like this would be a great mix as its going to give:

- people the RP they want

- still give traders a monopoly over class 3s as a majority of people will buy from them as its cheaper and arguably the best guns (50k tac was goated)

- Gives the combat players (me) the class 3s they so much desire as im going insane

- Helps with the economy as either way money is going to go towards businesses/traders or disappear in rebel store.

In terms of restrictions i feel like its simple. No class 3s in city limits. So if you want to rob the gas station outside Orlando its gotta be class 1. If you want to rob a gas station in the middle of no where its whatever you want to use.

^^^

This helps as most RP is in the cities (orlando, miami, St peterberg) so class 3s cannot intervene with this.

Also a no rob ban on legal runs or civ clothing. ONLY exception to this would be if you know they are doing illegal run so you see them growing weed, processing at cocaine, uranium trader.

 

This is a all parties win post in my opinion and I might be tunnel visioned on my own perspective but I don't see any real complains that can be made. If I made a mistake quote me and tell me or criticism 

+1 this sound sick ngl 

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what about the AU players when they get on and there is 0 craters on ? we are just gonna be forced into buying expensive guns.

this used to be a huge problem for me and other AUs in 4.0, I understand crafting is easier and less of a grind but i would be very upset if i come home from work and have no one on the island who is a craftier.

AUs would be forced into buying expensive guns from rebels and thats not very cool.

 

maybe things are different but i doubt there will be much people on during AU time in a week or two

 

 

1 hour ago, Lewis Miller said:

In terms of restrictions i feel like its simple. No class 3s in city limits. So if you want to rob the gas station outside Orlando its gotta be class 1. If you want to rob a gas station in the middle of no where its whatever you want to use.

^^^

This helps as most RP is in the cities (orlando, miami, St peterberg) so class 3s cannot intervene with this.

Also a no rob ban on legal runs or civ clothing. ONLY exception to this would be if you know they are doing illegal run so you see them growing weed, processing at cocaine, uranium trader.

 

 

i agree with class 3s not allowed in Orlando only (all the roleplayers stay in that city anyway)

dont limit us in the other cities its mad fun shooting cops in a city or having gun fights in a city  roleplayers wont just be sitting in peterberg

should just be you cant use your class 3 within 1k of a blue zone (orlando)

 

i agree with the no robbing legal runs 0 need to be robbing that

 

 

p.s roleplay stops when the roleplayers stop roleplaying no idea how having class 3s cheap at rebel makes people not want to roleplay but is what it is

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tariq Jamal said:

what about the AU players when they get on and there is 0 craters on ? we are just gonna be forced into buying expensive guns.

this used to be a huge problem for me and other AUs in 4.0, I understand crafting is easier and less of a grind but i would be very upset if i come home from work and have no one on the island who is a craftier.

AUs would be forced into buying expensive guns from rebels and thats not very cool.

 

maybe things are different but i doubt there will be much people on during AU time in a week or two

 

 

i agree with class 3s not allowed in Orlando only (all the roleplayers stay in that city anyway)

dont limit us in the other cities its mad fun shooting cops in a city or having gun fights in a city  roleplayers wont just be sitting in peterberg

should just be you cant use your class 3 within 1k of a blue zone (orlando)

 

i agree with the no robbing legal runs 0 need to be robbing that

 

 

p.s roleplay stops when the roleplayers stop roleplaying no idea how having class 3s cheap at rebel makes people not want to roleplay but is what it is

 

 

This is why we should bring back the auction house. guns can be posted 24/7 by crafters ,and people of all time zones can buy them.

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I’m for option 3 as said before but I wanted to add more.

Right now with pistols it’s *been fun, no one is overly toxic due to the restriction server wide and the fact no one is losing out on too much. Kits are 3k at the moment. Chump change. *it’s now getting boring af.

making class 3s too expensive (20k or whatever) is going to ruin it for a good chunk of the community. People will either leave because they don’t want to farm up for class 3s or get disgruntled by not being able to enjoy a main aspect of ARMA (the C3 combat) and losing hours of farming for a 5 minute gunfight.


I suggest

- crafters own the rare C3 market, gives them more to do, ability to price them, bit of roleplay involved. People can acquire those guns if they really want to.

- leave the standard class 3s to rebel. Double the price of class 3s initially (so 6k for your colt M4, etc) then after a few months see if people are happy.

 

Edited by Ryan O'Malley
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11 hours ago, Doug Jumper said:

People need to stop ignoring the following and I suggest re-posting their suggestion. This is impossible establish a proper vote because every single option from both sides is pretending like facts don't exist and people are eating up without considering it.

- No matter what the vote is, we will end up with affordable class 3s in rebel, this vote is for a temporary change to see how it will go and so we don't kill roleplay off.

- Cheap class 3s and easy economy on 5.5 killed the server to the same level as the 4.0 economy changes did if not worse due to where ARMA 3 is now, so there has to be a middle ground where the roleplayers have a place no matter what.

- On 4.0 crafting only class 3s did affect the player base but so did the fact COVID ended, the map sucked, the economy was VERY grindy including crafting. Crafting is now 10x easier so they technically can do 10x the demand and the economy is probably 4-5x easier now as well. You can argue the fact you couldn't access class 3s was the biggest factor but stop ignoring the fact the other things were big reasons for a lot of people. This is not a matter of opinion, all of these things did contribute. If we had guns in rebel all those issues would of persisted and the player base likely may of tanked ending in the same result of changes on 4.5. For combat players to pretend like 4.0 would of been fine with class 3s are just not considering the facts. 

- We can't stay on no class 3s forever, so roleplayers should take this into consideration with their suggestions.

I think what the combat players are tryna say that even though there was other factors, the setup for 4.0 was the nail in the coffin. I also think what most of us are trying to say is that making it too grindy and expensive to get guns is gonna result in the same.

the way Florida is layed out I think benefits both, all the role players hang about the cities, and the combat players are off doing cartel, combat events, etc. 

putting class 3s back in as it was is gonna cheer up the combat players, hardly affect the role players, and from reading this thread, combat players are all for a crafting system for guns, having rebel and the crafting system gives people the choice. So your main demographics are all satisfied. 

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10 hours ago, Isaak said:

posted it in wrong place but here are my thoughts 

Quote

People need to stop ignoring the following and I suggest re-posting their suggestion. This is impossible establish a proper vote because every single option from both sides is pretending like facts don't exist and people are eating up without considering it.

- No matter what the vote is, we will end up with affordable class 3s in rebel, this vote is for a temporary change to see how it will go and so we don't kill roleplay off.
 

- Cheap class 3s and easy economy on 5.5 killed the server to the same level as the 4.0 economy changes did if not worse due to where ARMA 3 is now, so there has to be a middle ground where the roleplayers have a place no matter what.

Personally I do not agree with this, I think 5.0 was great compared to the release of 4.0, during 4.0 you would be hard pressed  to even get transport truck to be able to spawn in because player count was so low, The idea of a player driven class 3 market will only work if there is a way to sell/trade without direct player interaction. 


- On 4.0 crafting only class 3s did affect the player base but so did the fact COVID ended, the map sucked, the economy was VERY grindy including crafting. Crafting is now 10x easier so they technically can do 10x the demand and the economy is probably 4-5x easier now as well. You can argue the fact you couldn't access class 3s was the biggest factor but stop ignoring the fact the other things were big reasons for a lot of people. This is not a matter of opinion, all of these things did contribute. If we had guns in rebel all those issues would of persisted and the player base likely may of tanked ending in the same result of changes on 4.5. For combat players to pretend like 4.0 would of been fine with class 3s are just not considering the facts. 


While yes crafting does require less XP than in the past guns still require the same amount of parts as they did in 5.0 (idk abt 4.0 because i did not craft then) and thus still require the same amount of runs to craft them, progression is all that was altered which I think is a great move to make crafting more attainable.  


- We can't stay on no class 3s forever, so roleplayers should take this into consideration with their suggestions.


I think the concept of a player driven market is a cool idea I just do not think it will work out on anzus, there will need to be a lot of changes for it to work well. 

At the very least I think we need to be able to use class 3s on the server weather it is crafted ones or not we are all getting drained playing with pistols only and there is only so much pain we can endure. 

4.0 was still sustaining 70+ players all the way up until 4.5 (check web archive), at the time that was REALLY low considering we just had a year of 125 players the whole time.

5.5 went down to 50-60 players at times, it was definitely a lot worse. 

They whole point was that it was easier than 4.0 and its a lot easier than 5.0 as well due to the run distance being easier in most cases due to the road layout and no hills.

It is clear that both FULL combat and FULL roleplay do not work. We have to find a middleground.

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 +1 option 2

But I would love if,

Class 2s in Rebel and PD for an affordable price. 

Class 3s should be left to crafters but if possible have a higher crafting cost material wise, Same with levels they should be higher. Big grind but a high reward for the people dedicated enough to craft them. This way it is harder to craft the class 3s and by putting them at a high sell price there will be less of them meaning that we wont have everyone running around with class 3s

 

Important things to add in your response

  • How much you believe class 3s are worth: 30-40k
  • How you believe they should be accessed: Crafters 
  • Where they should be used: If people are lucky enough to afford one then i would say everywhere on the island except Orlando
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A problem I noticed toward the end of Kamdan was that most (ish) combat players tended to play on cop instead of civ because kits were incredibly cheap to get versus civ and the action was about the same if not more. To keep the diversity of people in various factions that we have now, I think we have to keep that in mind. If the price is going to be this high, I think default bleed-out time (still can f1 normally) should be increased in case of situations with slow gameplay at places like cartel or cap zones. Nobody wants to lose old eco 200/300k to dying one time and not getting revived by a medic because they are busy or the situation is still ongoing. It might slow down gameplay in a short term sense for people to get to wait longer to get revived but that choice is up to the individual.

Important things to add in your response

  • How much you believe class 3s are worth: Immediately 20-30k sounds fine if not a bit high, but later on around 10k seems about right to me
  • How you believe they should be accessed: Rebel/Ghost, maybe spread out some others to the different quest people, also crafters. I would suggest reducing their chance on pirate ship/weapon cache but keep options like mil base/DOC evidence locker. This could shift the meta on majors from money gain to gun-gain as reward for success which could be cool (but could also be aids if cops lose a bunch of majors in a row to the same people).
  • Where they should be used: Everywhere but minor crimes, exception to jewelry store/oil rig. I think there should just be a common-sense judgement reached in the community not to abuse the use of class 3s against new players if they will be super expensive for a bit. Maybe also make it seem like cops are actually there to help people instead of store signs (ie prioritize real situations rather than gas station/clothing store robberies) this might lead new players/old players to RP with cops more than just go to the gun store and arm themselves. I'm just trying to think of ways to incorporate class 3s with consideration to people who might not/can't use them
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I’m all for increasing roleplay and having crafters, however it’s gonna be impossible for the crafters to keep up with the demand. 
 

in 1 day I might go through 5-8 class 3s say 10 people are online in my gang that’s already gonna be 50+ class 3s, if you times that by however many gangs are online / how many people are gonna use class 3s, we are gonna be at least 150 class 3s needed a day. 
 

Solution for this is have it similar to 5.5 where we can buy lower tier class 3s in rebel and then buy the higher tier class 3s from the crafters. 
 

10-15k for a class 3 from rebel will be feesable and should be around 1 illegal run. This will also prevent people from just robbing everyone to acquire more class 3s. 
 

Having the class 3s any higher than this and even at 15k is gonna stop people doing majors as it’s not worth risking the class 3 to only get enough money from the major to buy another class 3.

 

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12 minutes ago, Patrick Lee said:

I’m all for increasing roleplay and having crafters, however it’s gonna be impossible for the crafters to keep up with the demand. 
 

in 1 day I might go through 5-8 class 3s say 10 people are online in my gang that’s already gonna be 50+ class 3s, if you times that by however many gangs are online / how many people are gonna use class 3s, we are gonna be at least 150 class 3s needed a day. 
 

Solution for this is have it similar to 5.5 where we can buy lower tier class 3s in rebel and then buy the higher tier class 3s from the crafters. 
 

10-15k for a class 3 from rebel will be feesable and should be around 1 illegal run. This will also prevent people from just robbing everyone to acquire more class 3s. 
 

Having the class 3s any higher than this and even at 15k is gonna stop people doing majors as it’s not worth risking the class 3 to only get enough money from the major to buy another class 3.

 

anton made a comment already stating he could keep up... sure class 3s will be not as easy access to come by, but labs, pirate ship and crafters... crafters have already said they can do it. People will just have to actually think twice about what they are doing with a class 3 and use it well. 

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19 minutes ago, Patrick Lee said:

I’m all for increasing roleplay and having crafters, however it’s gonna be impossible for the crafters to keep up with the demand. 
 

in 1 day I might go through 5-8 class 3s say 10 people are online in my gang that’s already gonna be 50+ class 3s, if you times that by however many gangs are online / how many people are gonna use class 3s, we are gonna be at least 150 class 3s needed a day. 
 

Solution for this is have it similar to 5.5 where we can buy lower tier class 3s in rebel and then buy the higher tier class 3s from the crafters. 
 

10-15k for a class 3 from rebel will be feesable and should be around 1 illegal run. This will also prevent people from just robbing everyone to acquire more class 3s. 
 

Having the class 3s any higher than this and even at 15k is gonna stop people doing majors as it’s not worth risking the class 3 to only get enough money from the major to buy another class 3.

 

Class 3s irl are also not used by criminals on a day to day... most criminals that have full auto are organized crime and use it in situations that call for it (more often than not to my understanding; gang on gang violence's).

In the end of they day these are tools; expensive tools that aren't just thrown about in every scenario, in the system people will need to be more careful with their class 3 and will need to make decisions based on risk/reward with that gun. So I feel we will not see a whole load of full auto shoot outs all the time but more so thought out plans and crimes; this will make it so that class 3s are not a common casual thing but more so an "oh shit they have class 3s" kind of situation.

Edited by Jammal Murray

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5 minutes ago, Jammal Murray said:

anton made a comment already stating he could keep up... sure class 3s will be not as easy access to come by, but labs, pirate ship and crafters... crafters have already said they can do it. People will just have to actually think twice about what they are doing with a class 3 and use it well. 

so cap zones will be everyone roaching cause they are gear fear

no thanks

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